Since I have posted my tests on changing the default.wag file to accomodate front uncoupling, I've seen no response, so I'm wondering if anyone else would be willing to help test this out. I've got my hands full with other things right now.
The change is a single value in the default.wag file. Here is my recommended value:
"0.3 # min coupling velocity"
the original value was 0.1.
What this does is allow the loco to slowly back away after uncoupling without triggering a recoupling. But don't get in too much of a hurry: you must not exceed 0.3 m/s. This can be done whereas not exceeding .1 m/s cannot.
There may be one consequence of doing this. When initially coupling from the front, I've sometimes noticed that the train is not seen as coupled. It is sometimes necessary to back off a bit and stretch the couplers in order for the coupling to be recognized. This is not consistent and may have to do with velocity. Other than this, I've noticed nothing and have run around with cuts of cars on the front in for a few miles with no problem.
If there is a hidden fatal flaw, I'd like to know before passing this on to anyone else.
BTW, I am using coupler values like the ones in the Physics sticky section of these forums. I'm not sure how important this is since I've not had time to test with any of my older coupler settings.
Bill
Full Version: Anyone willing to test uncoupling theory?
Hi Bill...
I will gladly test... I am in the final stages of finishing my Prairie... Working out one issue I had with the LOD's I built - then final packaging... Hopefully have the production package out to some folks to test over the weekend...
So - as per your last - that "eng" file you sent me has the coupler changes you are speaking of - correct ???
Do the "wag" physics need to be changed to match or is this just a change on the "eng" side ???
I did have one system lock up when using the front coupler - it may have been when connecting to a car that did not have your physics... It may have been a fluke - not really sure...
As far as my understanding of the front coupler - it will never connect when going forward... You always need to have "x" velocity when pulling away - to get the couplers to engage...
So if I have the "eng" file with the coupler mod - you just want us to play around with it in different scenario's - then report back ???
Regards,
Scott
I will gladly test... I am in the final stages of finishing my Prairie... Working out one issue I had with the LOD's I built - then final packaging... Hopefully have the production package out to some folks to test over the weekend...
So - as per your last - that "eng" file you sent me has the coupler changes you are speaking of - correct ???
Do the "wag" physics need to be changed to match or is this just a change on the "eng" side ???
I did have one system lock up when using the front coupler - it may have been when connecting to a car that did not have your physics... It may have been a fluke - not really sure...
As far as my understanding of the front coupler - it will never connect when going forward... You always need to have "x" velocity when pulling away - to get the couplers to engage...
So if I have the "eng" file with the coupler mod - you just want us to play around with it in different scenario's - then report back ???
Regards,
Scott
Hi Bill...
Just reread your post...
Now I see that I must make a change to the "default.wag" file... No problem... I will do that and test with your "eng" file from the Prairie... I think that is what you are looking for...
Regards,
Scott
Just reread your post...
Now I see that I must make a change to the "default.wag" file... No problem... I will do that and test with your "eng" file from the Prairie... I think that is what you are looking for...
Regards,
Scott
The following reflect much front coupler use at .1 default setting:
The front coupler has to have rebound in order to lock. That is, I can ease into a standing car using the nose, and it will not couple. If I hit it at about 1 MPH, then the rebound action is usually sufficient to cause the .1 coupler value to engage. This is standard fare for front coupler use.
The greatest chance for lock-up is the moment the front coupler engages. Once engaged, you can pretty much go where you want to for as along as you want to without much chance of locking. The other "iffy" situation arises when nose coupled to a long cut (i.e. longer than 10 cars) and you draw up the F9 window to uncouple: Chances are good that a lock will result when you try to uncouple.
The real testing is in the repeated coupling/uncoupling/recoupling with the front coupler AND in the runaround moves including recoupling to the front of the train and successfully leaving with it behind you. Best way to test is to stop, run around to the rear, classify cars for a while using the nose coupler, then reassemble the train, run around, and recouple. If you can successfully leave with your train, that is a good thing.
To uncouple: Set some brake, put the engine in reverse, uncouple via F9, then slowly apply throttle until it begins to over power the brake... easing back at least about 1-2 feet from the car. You soon get good at it.
.3 should require more force into the car to enact the rebound, hence the coupling. It should be more forgiving in the backing away once uncoupled.
One other thing: Doing a save after having used the front coupler is a likely way to crash the sim on exit and corrupting the save. Always make sure you have reused the REAR coupler before making a save. This also seems to stablize the game so that it won't lock upon exit from the sim too.
Even with all the work, fixes, etc, that many have invested into the front coupler, the front coupler is still not, and will not ever be, 100% reliable in any given situation.
Quick tips for front coupler useage:
* Couple at 1 MPH or less. Back away smartly if necessary to engage the coupler.
* Keep cuts short. (10 cars or less.)
* Never save after using the front coupler until you've reused the rear coupler.
* Work the throttle against the brakes in order to back away slowly from the uncoupled car.
* Limit front coupler use to single engines and short cuts.
Even with all of this, there may be specific situations that arise within an activity that simply prevents succesful front coupler usage. (Brought about by pathing quirks, I suspect.) The only option is to eliminate that scenario. Trust me, I have lost entire evenings trying to make known good equipment function within a specific scenario, only to give up in disgust.
It's not a perfect sim, but far better than what we've had in the past!
Andre
The front coupler has to have rebound in order to lock. That is, I can ease into a standing car using the nose, and it will not couple. If I hit it at about 1 MPH, then the rebound action is usually sufficient to cause the .1 coupler value to engage. This is standard fare for front coupler use.
The greatest chance for lock-up is the moment the front coupler engages. Once engaged, you can pretty much go where you want to for as along as you want to without much chance of locking. The other "iffy" situation arises when nose coupled to a long cut (i.e. longer than 10 cars) and you draw up the F9 window to uncouple: Chances are good that a lock will result when you try to uncouple.
The real testing is in the repeated coupling/uncoupling/recoupling with the front coupler AND in the runaround moves including recoupling to the front of the train and successfully leaving with it behind you. Best way to test is to stop, run around to the rear, classify cars for a while using the nose coupler, then reassemble the train, run around, and recouple. If you can successfully leave with your train, that is a good thing.
To uncouple: Set some brake, put the engine in reverse, uncouple via F9, then slowly apply throttle until it begins to over power the brake... easing back at least about 1-2 feet from the car. You soon get good at it.
.3 should require more force into the car to enact the rebound, hence the coupling. It should be more forgiving in the backing away once uncoupled.
One other thing: Doing a save after having used the front coupler is a likely way to crash the sim on exit and corrupting the save. Always make sure you have reused the REAR coupler before making a save. This also seems to stablize the game so that it won't lock upon exit from the sim too.
Even with all the work, fixes, etc, that many have invested into the front coupler, the front coupler is still not, and will not ever be, 100% reliable in any given situation.
Quick tips for front coupler useage:
* Couple at 1 MPH or less. Back away smartly if necessary to engage the coupler.
* Keep cuts short. (10 cars or less.)
* Never save after using the front coupler until you've reused the rear coupler.
* Work the throttle against the brakes in order to back away slowly from the uncoupled car.
* Limit front coupler use to single engines and short cuts.
Even with all of this, there may be specific situations that arise within an activity that simply prevents succesful front coupler usage. (Brought about by pathing quirks, I suspect.) The only option is to eliminate that scenario. Trust me, I have lost entire evenings trying to make known good equipment function within a specific scenario, only to give up in disgust.
It's not a perfect sim, but far better than what we've had in the past!
Andre
Came across this today on the back of an old Western Maryland employee timetable. It has a chart of the impact forces at striking speeds. The chart says that following, which some may find of interest for prototypical coupling:
Car Coupled at: Units of Destructive Force:
1 mph 1
2 mph 4
3 mph 9
4 mph 16
5 mph 25
6 mph 36
7 mph 49
8 mph 64
9 mph 81
10 mph 100
The above shows how important it is to couple at low speeds and why Andre has made sure that the force or speed necessary to couple is set so low.
Paul
Car Coupled at: Units of Destructive Force:
1 mph 1
2 mph 4
3 mph 9
4 mph 16
5 mph 25
6 mph 36
7 mph 49
8 mph 64
9 mph 81
10 mph 100
The above shows how important it is to couple at low speeds and why Andre has made sure that the force or speed necessary to couple is set so low.
Paul
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