Hi All:

Well, the "Fun" thread was just that, fun. (Congratulations again to Michael for deducing the correct railroad and location!)

Some of you that have only recently frequented my VSC forum may wonder "WHERE did this CM thing come from?". (Or you may not even care! )

Of course, those of you that "know" me here, well, you know how I am: I see this as an excellent opportunity to spew out pages of drivel and be enthralled with the sight of my own typed words on yet another internet forum!

So, fulfilling the Latin term "Carpe Diem" I shall endeavor to seize the day, and enlighten the great unwashed throngs as to how this "CM thing" came to be. In addition, I intend to throw out some progress shots of where this project is at this point, and what I hope to accomplish with it. Actually, even if you're only remotely interested in the possibility of running some trains up and over Ute Pass, you may find some interesting things in this gigantic (I figure) thread. Oh, and expect several of diagrams and pics.

The CM and MSTS:

First, understand that the CM was THE railroad that introduced me to the fascination of Colorado railroading. This was back in 1990 or so. Mel McFarland's excellent book about the Colorado Midland was my first purchase that comprehensively dealt with the CM. I was hooked. From this beginning eventually grew my appreciation for the narrow gauge lines of Colorado as well. So, as you can see, my interest in the CM is pivotal to my entire interest in Colorado railroads. In addition, it cemented my budding interest in "TOC19" railroading, that is, "Turn of the 19th Century" railroading.

It was through the advent of this amazingly durable MSTS program that it dawned on me I could perhaps build this sucker, and live it in virtual. So it was that several years ago (soon after my release of the North Arkansas route?) I attempted building the CM from Colorado City to points West. I failed big time on account of:

1. The CM is a complicated route and it was exceeding my route building skills at the time.

2. I was limited to the default track system and the CM used some very radical trackwork. I could not even come close to adequately portraying some track arrangements. (At that time it was generally felt the XTracks creator was aversive to allowing XTracks to be used in a commerical endeavor. This has since proved to not be the case, as the XTracks creator addressed it and made provision for commercial use. Scale Rail didn't exist then.)

3. My route data was not very comprehensive and I felt the operational potential (i.e. "Activities" and things to do.) of the proposed segment was too limited. This was very important to me at the time, for it was my perception at that time that a commercial route needed good "play value" for the customer. Understand that during that time, my involvement with MSTS was more from the commercial vantage point than the hobbiest side. (Which eventually almost ruined MSTS for me.)

Anyway, the above contributed to my cancelling (giving up on) the CM project, and Jon Davis' beautiful work on the CM equipment ended up being released as an Equipment Pack. I retreated to proto-lanced routes that I felt had good "play value" and the added factor of being able to free-flow (which was important in order to avoid constraints that could hinder a commercial endeavor), and the A&O Sub and Ozark Northern (basically my stand-in for the CM) were developed and eventually released. In my humble opinion, both of those route efforts came through in spades in regards to "play value". However, neither was an attempt at replicating specific prototype(s) as accurately as is reasonable, given the venue I work with.

Since my retreat from primarily commercial efforts to that of again being an MSTS hobbiest first, I have come to realize that I find much more personal reward trying to bring back abandoned (or radically evolved) prototypes more than freelancing, or even protolancing. Further, try as I might... I just find that TOC19 is more interesting to me than today's scene... so invariably my projects have been aimed at TOC19.

Alright... I hear you now... "Look... we didn't want a LIFE BLOG... so... WHY THE CM already????"

Good enough. I will close this and post it, and start "Part 2: The Life And Times Of A Dysfunctional MSTS'er" shortly!!!

Hi Andre!

Great to hear another TOC route to come :-) Means some new work for OVS people to run some activities. As you were speaking about a book I want to ask you if you can promote some literature about the CM.

I am accustomed to buy literature about almost every MSTS-line I am intersted in :-)

Especially for the Maine 2footers I spent many many dollars 8-)
Please don`t let my wife know ;-)

Christian

Hello Christian:

Bless your heart. You are always one to step in and be an encouragment! Thank you!

As for books about the Colorado Midland. Well... I don't know of any that are in print. That means you will need to find them at second hand sources: Amazon.com, eBay, etc. Prices will vary from "not bad"... to "they've GOT to be kidding!".

The CM books I would recommend are (Author/Title/Publisher) and in this order, would be:

* E.M. McFarland; "The Midland Route: Colorado Midland Guide and Data Book"; Colorado Railroad Museum.

* Dan Abbott; "Colorado Midland Railway: Through The Divide"; Sundance Books.

* Morris Cafky; "Colorado Midland"; Rocky Mountain Railroad Club.

The Cafky book has been out of print since about 1965. Expect to pay well over $100 US dollars for it.

IF you only want one book that will give you an excellent overall view of the CM's locale, equipment, and such, then in my opinion, I think the McFarland book would be your best choice.

Good hunting and good luck!

The Mad Musings Of A Dysfunctional MSTS'er: Part 2...

So... for the past many months as mood and energy moved me, I worked on projects that appealed to my primary railroading interests:

* A narrow gauge route. (The Colorado Central and dabbled with the Telluride Branch of the RGS.)

* A TOC19 project: The Coal Belt.

* A diesel project: The C&O at Thurmond, circa 1960's. (Not much at all has been accomplished on this.)

About a month ago I decided to send alpha copies of my recent steam projects to two close friends for their input:

* The Coal Belt
* The Colorado Central
* The Telluride Branch of the RGS.

On a whim... I sorted through my numerous failed routes and burned a copy of the old CM onto the same CD. Out they went.

Their input has been very helpful and motivational, and bascally confirmed what I was feeling. In a nutshell, this was the consensus:

COAL BELT:

Pros: Fantastic operational potential. Very good, though challengingly difficult, first segment capable of being developed/released and thus enjoyed by others.

Cons: Mild terrain traversed. Very complicated and vast scope. Very little equipment that could be used. First segment would be extremely structure/object heavy. Concerns I had already overbuilt the route. VERY little equipment for use. (A minimum of three railroads would need to be represented, basically all requiring new locomotive models.)


COLORADO CENTRAL:

Pros: Good operating potential ONCE enough route was completed (about 28 miles to Black Hawk). Excellent terrain traversed. (Rugged, hence interesting.)

Cons: The DualTrack system for MSTS has limited use in activities. (This was a big blow: Much dual track was at the eastern terminus of Golden, CO.) Zero era-correct equipment available for use. Long route length needed to be built before a segment could be released for others to enjoy.


RGS TELLURIDE BRANCH:

Pros: Fair operating potential (local switching, mine switching, and runs down/up 4% Keystone Hill to/from Vance Jct.) Gorgeous NED Seamless terrain, especially up in the Pandora area. Freeware equipment available for use.

Cons: The operational potential could quickly be exhausted. Very limited in scope. That segment of the RGS has already been done, and is currently being upgraded for later release. (This year.)


COLORADO MIDLAND:

Pros: Very good operating potential. Very rugged terrain sections. "Do-able" first segment possible. Second segment release would offer totally different operation as opposed to first segment. Excellent equipment is already available.

Cons: The old route effort would have to be extensively reworked. First segment will be very structure/object heavy.

Once we three began to discuss the pros/cons, it was determined that the real sleeper among all the above turned out to be the Colorado Midland. Herb immediately saw a very good operational potential, in conjunction with very rugged sections of terrain with excellent scenic effects possible. Once Steve got to the CM, he too, saw the operational challenges the route afforded.

I saw in the CM the ability to scratch my Colorado itch, as well as recreate a railroad that has been an interest of mine since 1990. Plus, the very important element: Equipment is ALREADY available!

Another factor tilting the scales in favor of the CM was that since my CM attempt of several years ago, my CM database has grown significantly. In doing so, I have learned that the CM had some very interesting and intense operation between Colorado Springs and Florissant. In fact, in Colorado City and Colorado Springs, the CM was contracted by the D&RG, ATSF, and UPD&G to perform their switching in the industries, as well as some of their yards! This essentially means that ALL track I lay in the Colorado City and Colorado Springs areas will be used by the CM! Talk about operational potential. In addition, there were CM transfer runs to/from all of the above and also up to Roswell, Colorado to interchange with the Chicago, Kansas & Nebraska... later known as the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific. (Rock Island.)

Okay... this does it for Part 2. Part 3 will follow soon...

Part 3!

So, the above let's you know HOW I arrived at the CM. Now, let's take a look at what has been done in one month's time...

First off, the track in the original CM route is not going to be usable. So, I basically cleared the tiles where I would begin reconstructing the route, and started anew.

My first goal is to get the track complete in Segment One: Colorado Springs and Colorado City, including all connections and industries that can reasonably be modeled. I am about 90% there. I WAS 100%, or so I thought. However, I just learned last week of the CK&N operation, and that the CM went to Roswell, CO to effect interchange with them. So, I will be adding track to the north end of the D&RG (CM had trackage rights!) to a point a couple miles north of Colorado Springs. There will be built the CK&N yard.

Below you will find an up-to-the-minute AE schematic of the Colorado Springs area. The new double track to the CK&N at Roswell will be added at "D".

All for this post... another one on the way!

Next we look at what has been accomplished in the Colorado City area. (Colorado City was about 2-3 miles west of Colorado Springs.)

Bear in mind that the CM accomplished all the local freight work for the D&RG in Colorado City, so, that means any D&RG track will be used by the CM for more operational potential!

In actuality, the rails of the CM have been relaid to Manitou, about 3 more miles west, however, that is another story left for another time.

In the next installment of "As The MSTS'er Turns"... we'll start looking at what's being done (and has already been done) in the equipment realm!

I have mentioned that there already exists era-correct equipment for a CM route. (To wit: The DLW CM Equip Pack that is available.)

Research indicates that the CM Pack includes several KEY locomotive models that COULD be expanded to a roster of something like 20 different engines.

Well... ol' Herb is one to NEVER be satisfied, so he set in and started cloning items from the CM Pack to exploit this potential.

I will now start a series of posts containing pics of same!

First up is the Class 91 series. ALL CM loco's in that class are represented!

And the Class 93's and Class 102's....

The Class 104's and Class 115's...

HOWEVER... just like a Rontel commerical: But WAIT... that's not ALL! There's MORE!!!

Yup, Herb is extending the cloning program to the rolling equipment.

Here's the current Cabeese fleet and the passenger cars...

Finally, we're also exploring the possibility of creating supporting rosters using available models.

Below you'll find some examples of this!

Oh yes: Concerning the clones, I already have permission to release them when the time arrives. Details are being finalized as to how/when.

Okay... that about does it for now. I'll let you digest the informational overload above! Later, I'll come back in and start talking about operations, and perhaps even a bit about Segment 2 of the route, and what it can offer.

Comments welcomed and encouraged!!

Later!

OOOOOPS! Almost forgot... below you'll find a screen capture of the Colorado City Yard and Shops as they appear this minute. Note there are already scale-sized building blanks in place. Time is fast approaching to begin structures for Segment 1!!

Very cool! What is going to be the eventual overall expanse of this route? (I know very little about this railroad)

Hi Perry!

Of course, my immediate goal is to complete the Colorado Springs/Colorado City segment. On that segment, the farthest a CM transfer train will travel will be about 7 miles. However, there will be a LOT of operation possible within the two cities covered. This will be the toughest segment to build, given its track complexity, object density, and city-type scenes.

Once that segment is finished... I will begin in earnest the extension up Ute Pass (4% ruling grade) and over Hayden Divide, and down the other side of Hayden Divide to the railroad town of Florissant. There were helpers both ways over Hayden Divide. The Ute Pass side had a 4% ruling grade, and the Florissant side had 3% almost all the way from Florissant to Divide.

That will make the CM track (NOT including all the D&RG, ATSF, UPD&G, and the CK&N yard tracks) at 35.8 miles. Colorado Springs to Florissant will complete my first vision for this project.

Mileposts for this section were as follows:

MP:

0.0 the ATSF connection switch at Colorado Springs
3.0 Colorado City
6.1 Manitou
6.9 Iron Springs
9.5 Crags
11.5 Cascade
12.7 Culver
14.9 Green Mtn. Falls
17.6 Bison
20.0 Woodland Park
23.3 Edlowe
26.9 Divide (top of Hayden Divide/Ute Pass)
28.8 Bellvue
33.3 Pisgah
35.8 Florissant

As stated, the CM has been a favorite road I have been fascinated with for a long time. At long last, my data resources have reached the point (and with the help of XTracks) that it is possible to recreate a close replica of it. No, it won't be "track-for-track/gradient" perfect... but the hardest trackwork areas are turnin' out pretty stinkin' close.

FWIW: All evening I have been working on the newly discovered Chicago Kansas & Nebraska yard... HOPE to get it finished this weekend or early in the week. Once that is done, it will be time to start adding/creating structures!!! Yup... I"m talking I'm SERIOIUS about this favorite Colorado railroad of mine.

All for now... time to go raid the refridgerator for some goodies!!

What type of freight traffic ran on this line, particularly over Ute Pass? I'm guessing maybe lumber or ore?

Excellent!!! This is one I would love to have. Good luck on the creation.

Jim

Looks like its going to be a great one! Your enthusiasm is contagious.

Dwayne

Hi Andre!

Thank you for the book-hints. I already found a copy for a reasonable
price at Abebooks :-)

Regarding your pics: I just can answer with a wow!!!! Looking very forward for the CM!!!

Your StL&NA infected me once with the turn of the centaury-virus.
Now I myself am building railroads in this time 8-)

Ok a lilbit later - in the 20ies ;-)

Your pics are very promising!!! I think I should introduce a 30 hour
day to find more time running your georgeous routes!!!

Now off for bed,

Christian

Perry asked:

"What type of freight traffic ran on this line, particularly over Ute Pass? I'm guessing maybe lumber or ore?"

You name it, it moved west over Ute Pass: Mining timber, ties, construction lumber, general merchandise, prerishibles, coal, steel, etc, etc. Almost the same freight ladings coming back east up to Divide, too, with the exception of perhaps steel. BUT, you can add lots of ore to be milled at Colorado City to more than make up for that.

I carefully chose 1893 for several reasons:

* The Midland was complete BUT... the Busk-Ivanhoe Tunnel was NOT. (Opened Dec 17th, I think I recall.) Therefore, if I should ever get as far as that region, I can model that awesome Hagerman Pass line.

* The construction of the Midland Terminal Rwy was in full swing via their connection at Divide. This will mean I can capitilize on all sorts of construction traffic up Ute Pass to/from the town of Divide.

The 1892 Time Table I have lists about EIGHTEEN scheduled trains in/out of Colorado City. Adding in the needed extras, helpers, etc, there will be GREAT traffic opportunities to develop activities around.

Of course, first things first. Gotta' get what's on my plate finished up before I can even think about expansion.


Hiball Jim said:

"Excellent!!! This is one I would love to have. Good luck on the creation."

Thanks for the well wishing Jim! I too, am pretty excited about bringing my beloved old CM back to life. The fact that we have such a great start on equipment is a huge plus for this project.


Dwayne said:

"Looks like its going to be a great one! Your enthusiasm is contagious."

Dwayne, I think it would be safe to say that the Colorado Midland is perhaps one of the most famous and popular TOC19 prototypes that ever existed. We're talking a railroad that was gone by 1921-22... yet it STILL has an impressive following of enthusiasts and historians studying and modeling it. It was the grand daddy of 'em all in Colorado. (i.e. The first standard gauge line to penetrate the Rockies.) The 4% up Ute Pass is incredible. (8 tunnels in 2 miles!) All of it: Just a fantastic railroad. Now that I've learned there was SOOO much in Colorado City/Colorado Springs, etc, there will be lots of operation, too. A bonus! Yup... I can't help but be excited about it. Just wish I could snap my fingers and have a completed route to enjoy!!! (Instead of a snap of the fingers... more like a really looooong series of mouse clicks!)


Christian said:

Hi Andre!

"Thank you for the book-hints. I already found a copy for a reasonable price at Abebooks :-) "

You're welcome! I really think you will not regret purchasing a CM book. You'll REALLY get hooked on it, then!


"Regarding your pics: I just can answer with a wow!!!! Looking very forward for the CM!!!"

Me too!!! Just wish it weren't so much wooooorrrrrrkkkkkkk to develop a route!


"Your StL&NA infected me once with the turn of the centaury-virus. Now I myself am building railroads in this time 8-) "

Wait until you have the CM in your hands... it will be the St.LNA on STEROIDS. Much more traffic to model and much more impressive terrain... the CM will be a dandy.


"Your pics are very promising!!! I think I should introduce a 30 hour day to find more time running your georgeous routes!!! "

"Now off for bed."

Nighty night! (It ought to be about 3 AM in Germany right about now!)

All:

Thanks for your comments and questions. I really enjoy answering them and talking trains with you!

Just a quick update. Remember me mentioning that I recently learned about the CM making transfer runs to/from the Chicago, Kansas & Nebraska (later Rock Island) yard? Well... I got busy learning more about it, and then set about creating an acceptable facimile of it on the Midland project.

I'm happy to announce that it's FINISHED! Just tonight I tied-in the last of the tracks.

This means that the rails in the Colorado City and Colorado Springs areas are essentially DONE. Structure time has arrived! I intend to place some temporary roads that will be used to help locate orient them correctly... then its time to dust off my trusty ol' TSM and paint programs... and get to the building of structures!

Oh... here's a pic of the CK&N yard!

EDIT: And speaking of placing some roads... below is an RE pic of the what I've accomplished at Colorado Springs since typing the above! Can you detect the street running?

Time Table? Did somebody say Time Table? Scan it, Oh Cheese, and I'll digitally reproduce it for mass consumption!

Hello Andre,

I have been looking at your fine railroads and considered buying them. I like the idea of 19th century railroading. The only problem for me was that I couldn't identify with the Ozarks.

The CM looks like the one for me!! Driving east into Colorado Springs I spotted the old CM mainline grade still there after all these years.

Yours truly,
Leland

Are you saying we are "Going CM?"!!! I'm for it brother! Lets get some of those "Fat Boilered" Consolidations!!!

R/
Galen

Steve:

The 1892 Time Table is inside the covers of my latest CM book purchase: Morris Cafky's "Colorado Midland" published in 1965. As the time nears, I will scan and send you the info.

Leland:

The Ozark Northern is a budding steam engineer's "tune up" for the CM.

Oh... and as for waiting for the "quick release" of the CM... you've got a friend that is also waiting. See below.

Galen:

Yup. Right now I've got the big time hots for the CM. As mentioned above, I'm modeling 1893. The fat-boilered Consols didn't come along until after 1900.

Haven't really hit RE that hard tonight HOWEVER... did get some things done. In Colorado Springs:

* Reworked the UPD&G street yard to conform to new data I received.

* Have the essential streets placed.

The time has come to start thinking about structures!

Spent a bit of time looking over my Photo Texture folders and I have quite a bit of useable stuff. However, what I could really use would be a sunny Saturday so I can get my camera and head out to scrounge around for "building block" textures for things I need to make. Got a feeling one of the harder textures I need to find is going to be "gingerbread" siding, in a variety of colors, no less.

Anyhoo... couldn't resist slapping up an RE pic showing the state of things at Colorado Springs. May not look much different from the one above, but trust me, it is!

All for now!

Very interesting shots.

However, have you thought of texturing the streets onto the terrain? Judging by the density of streets necessary, It would help largely in an object count critical area. Just a suggestion

SAR:

Absolutely. These will all be dirt roads when finished. No way to make the default dirt roads look like dirt with soft edges, etc. However, I have to use roads as placeholders for two reasons:

1. So the rdb will show in Mosaic, thus helping me to paint the roads.

2. Helps me with structure placement.

Like the Ozark Northern, once finished in an area, out come the roads pieces.

Right now, there is something like 430 objects on the Colorado Springs tile. That will reduce by 100+ once the roads are pulled. Even so, on my now-ancient machine, I get 38 FPS in the heavy tiles. (58 in the lighter tiles.) So, I still have about 10-15 FPS of headroom in Colorado Springs and Colorado City to allow for structures/scenic support. However, I will still have to be miserly and not go nuts... or operational use will be adversely impacted.

Hi Andre,

Man - look'n good - you've been busy...
Glad to see one of your old projects might see the light of day...
Really good idea putting Jon's fine locomotives to good use - they really are little jewels...

That looks like one big city - might want to try building entire blocks or multiple blocks as a single object to keep your object count low... Just my 2 cents...


Keep up the good work !!!

Regards,
Scott

Scottrick said:

> Man - look'n good - you've been busy...

I have! However, things will slow waaaay down now. Laying track is the fastest portion of route building.

> Glad to see one of your old projects might see the light of day...

This route is like the "same axe" that has had two heads and three handles replaced. About the only "orginal" thing left is the DEM terrain... and that has been added to!

> Really good idea putting Jon's fine locomotives to good use -
> they really are little jewels...

It pained me to face up the fact that I was way over my head and lacked the track pieces to create the CM waaaay back when. Jon did such a wonderful job on his equipment... like you say.. they NEED the "correct" place to be used.

> That looks like one big city - might want to try building
> entire blocks or multiple blocks as a single object to keep
> your object count low... Just my 2 cents...

Realized that a looong time ago when looking at downtown Ft. Smith on the Coal Belt project. Colorado Springs and Colorado City are about in the same category. I'm going to have to use LOTS of object count saving tricks.

Nice terrain texture. However, my gut feeling suggests that this one may be more suited to the mountainous areas? In street view, the flatter areas around where the shots were taken appear to have a mix of green and a soft golden colour, like some places at the beginning of summer. I notice that as you head west though, the colour of the terrain alters dramatically to resemble the mountains like the texture used in the shots above.

Anyhow, just my $0.02. I hope I don't sound too picky. I am enjoying this thread a lot.

Hi SAR!

Current terrtex is only a placeholder. It is something I snagged from the Colorado City area that looks "okay", and works for now. Terrtex work will come later. There is such a variety of textures in the Colorado Rockies, that having to decide on what will serve best as the default "terrain" terrtex is a bummer. Eventually I will have sets of terrtexes in addition to patches that have been through Mosaic. Still though, having the sim paint EVERYTHING with "terrain" as default makes for more work in swapping out/modifying (via Mosaic) terrain patches.

Well... all for tonight. Bed time is arriving.

No probs. Obviously it's still in very early stages. Gotta give it time....

Just looking at a post on www.train-sim.com got me thinking about liveries. Have any of the HO scale modelers ever made anything for this railway? The reason I ask is that UP have gone nuts painting some locomotives in liveries of railroads that are no longer around. Are they likely to eventually be evil enough to outshop something in the CM livery, and sell the rights back to us for using it?

What about the St Louis & NA?

Hi SAR:

It would be the pits to have to ante up for use of the CM or StLNA trademarks, eh?

Of course, the CM ceased to be in 1920 or so. The StLNA ceased to be about 1908. (Replaced by the Missouri & North Arkansas.)

It is my understanding that neither trademark was retained and thus have been in the public domain sector for a looooong time. (Obviously, surviving/assuming railroads "back then" didn't perceive obsolete trademarks as revenue-producing gimicks that can be used to somehow gig people that find an appreciation in said historic entities.) However, I guess if someone wants to purchase said trademarks and then issue a "cease and desist" aimed toward me... then that would certainly kill both products!

Levity aside: Believe it or not, in the years past, the Union Pacific's ridiculous trademark approach to their fallen flag assimilated railroads caused me to drop any idea of developing any route that was under their thumb. Neither then, or for sure now, could my absolutely miniscule MSTS VSC payware "business" support liscensed product.

Hello Andre... another voice from the past here. Remember?

I've always been a huge fan of your work and I drove the StL&NA and the A&O sub to death but your Ozark's Northern was released just a tad after I walked away from the train sim scene some - oh, what would it be...? Two - three years ago?

But anyway, I've decided to return now and my first intention was to find out what you and Rich Garber had been up to... I see Rich is now working in RW but you are still aiming for that CM goal of yours that I knew you held near to your heart from so long ago.

I'll be watching progress in this route and I think you can expect a Paypal transaction from me at some point soon for the Ozarks route too. From the screenshots and Train-Mania's review I think it is a route I *need* to own.

All the very best for the CM project and I truly hope it scratches that itch you've had for so long.

Martin said:

> Hello Andre... another voice from the past here. Remember?

I sure do! You helped me (beta test) my first route: The lil' StL&NA! Good to hear from you!

> I've always been a huge fan of your work and I drove
> the StL&NA and the A&O sub to death....

Plum wore out the hard drive, did you?

> ...but your Ozark's Northern was released just a tad
> after I walked away from the train sim scene some -
> oh, what would it be...? Two - three years ago?

Well... the development of the Ozark Northern bogged down due to life issues and other distractions. It really took me MUCH longer than it ever should have. Burned myself out, I did. Might nigh ruined me as an MSTS'er! Now that I've FINALLY got that sucker finished and out the door... I have stepped back to again being be a hobbiest first, and a commercial endeavor second. Doing so has helped to put sanity and enjoyment back into what I'm doing with MSTS.

> But anyway, I've decided to return now and my first intention was
> to find out what you and Rich Garber had been up to...

Well you came to the right place to get the low-down on me!

> I see Rich is now working in RW...

And apparently doing a bang-up job at route building therein.

> ...but you are still aiming for that CM goal of yours that
> I knew you held near to your heart from so long ago.

Memory jog: That's right! I now remember you were here "back then"!

> I'll be watching progress in this route and I think you can
> expect a Paypal transaction from me at some point soon
> for the Ozarks route too.

> From the screenshots and Train-Mania's review I think it
> is a route I *need* to own.

Well... Rod's (aka "August1929") screen shot skills can make a pig look like a princess! His screen shot skills help to show what the Ozark Northern really can look like. My screen shots are reeeeeeally bad. Don't know why.

I was very proud of the "At The Railyard" review. I thought the camera and editing work were very good. I also thought the music selections were perfect for the route. Given the anguish I experienced developing the Ozark Northern, it really helped boost my spirits about the overall impact (for the end-user) of the finished product and helped me to feel it was worth my time and effort to finish it.

> All the very best for the CM project and I truly hope it
> scratches that itch you've had for so long.

Well thank you, and me too!

I have sort of hit a stalemate for now. Much to my chagrin, I see that I don't have the structural photo texture variety I thought I had... so I really need a good day (sun), along with the time, to spend the day out taking pics of building parts to use to construct the needed textures. Perhaps this next Saturday.

As it is, I COULD go west and keep laying track... but I've REALLY hit it hard the past month as far as laying track. I was ready for a break... just don't have the textures immediately available to switch gears and start creating structures for Colorado Springs and Colorado City.

Soo... a bit of a break. I suspect in a day or two (as I wait for the time to go get structure pics), I'll head up to Manitou and continue laying track west or something along that line.

I've started at one of the most challenging areas (object density, cityscape, etc). If I can get this first portion whipped... the rest of the way will be more of what I'm used to in route building.

Anyway... welcome back to MSTS and be sure to stop by here often and offer input!

Thank you for the warm welcome back. You know that 'Railyard' review of the ON was *so* good, what with that stirring music and all that I actually had a lump in my throat - weird huh? But that's true, it really is.

This track laying deal.. it is all a part of the Grand Plan, yes? Something that adds to the original design concept? I've seen a good few route builders just go out there laying track (because its easy) and then get disheartened when it come to filling in the green moonscape alongside it. Only lay the track you *really* need is my motto.

But no doubt you know all this, having been through it twice. I'm watching from the sidelines though and keen to see progress and comment if you need comments.

> Thank you for the warm welcome back.

Like I said: Glad to have you back.

> You know that 'Railyard' review of the ON was *so* good, what with that
> stirring music and all that I actually had a lump in my throat - weird huh?
> But that's true, it really is.

Nick deserves an Emmy or somethin'! Wonder what that orchestra music was? Very good.

> This track laying deal.. it is all a part of the Grand Plan, yes?
> Something that adds to the original design concept?

The grand plan:

Segment 1 - Build and release Colorado Springs and Colorado City. (Segment 1.) This includes the rail facilities of the CM, ATSF, UPD&G, D&RG and CK&N (Rock Island). Also included on CM track in Segment 1 will be the Golden Cycle Mill, the Colorado-Philidelphia Mill, the Standard Mill, and the Quarry Spur w/Quarry. There will be a lot of switching oriented possibilities on Segment 1, as well as much potential for AI trains chuffing about. Track for this segment is basically complete. We're talking about 4-5 miles CM mainline length, but two or three times that in regards to spurs, branches, and yard facilities, plus the mainlines and yards of the connecting roads. Bear in mind that the CM switched the yards and industries for ALL connecting railroads in Colorado Springs and Colorado City. This means that any/all tracks you see on the schematics will be used by the CM for switching as well as transfer runs. Mondo switching opportunities will be possible on Segment 1.

Segment 2: Lay the CM rails west from Colorado City, passing through Manitou on 3% grade, then up 4% through Iron Springs to Cascade, 3% grade from Cascade through Green Mountain Falls, Ute Park, Woodland Park, Edlowe, to the summit town of Divide. At Divide the CM will connect with the abuilding Midland Terminal Rwy. Modeling 1893 will mean that vast amounts of construction supplies will move up Ute Pass to Divide for the MT Rwy. From Divide, the rails will descend 3% for about 9 miles to the railroad town of Florissant. Helpers were operated from Colorado City to Divide, and from Florissant to Divide. Sometimes the helpers stayed on all the way over the Divide (both ways), depending. Once Segment 2 is released, the total CM mainline mileage will be 36.7 miles.

The operational "personality" of Segment 2 will be completely different from the operational "personality" of Segment 1. Segment 1 will be transfers to/from all the above mentioned connecting roads, plus yard switching, hostling, industrial switching, mill/quarry runs, local switching, etc. Segment 2 will add the ability for lots of helper service (freight and passenger), plus local freights, passenger turns, construction extra freights, caboose hops, freight turns to Colorado City to Divide and from Florissant to Divide, etc! There is MUCH more operational substance with the CM than I first thought many years ago.

> I've seen a good few route builders just go out there laying track
> (because its easy) and then get disheartened when it come to
> filling in the green moonscape alongside it.

Guilty! Been there, done that on MANY route projects.

I will say that laying track according to a prototype is nowhere near as easy as it is when freelancing or proto-lancing a route, but it IS faster than filling the tiles with scenic element.

> Only lay the track you *really* need is my motto.

And a good motto it is. Only caveat is that laying the track to the end of the proposed project allows you to see "in the sim" if there are any terrain or DM issues so they can be fixed or addressed before you have too many months of intense work in the project. (In case the issue is severe enough to force the cancelation of the project.)

> But no doubt you know all this, having been through it twice.

Three complete commercial routes and a ton of private-use routes!

> I'm watching from the sidelines though and keen to see
> progress and comment if you need comments.

Enjoy the view and jump right in when you want to!

It is interesting that Martin should bring up that "scenery thing." I never had a layout with scenery until I got into the sim!

Good point, Herb. It's one of the most interesting things I have encountered since coming online and meeting 100s if not 1000s of rail-fans, rail-sim users and railroad modellers from all over the world because of train simulators: the diversity of what people seek in their hobby. There are those who drool over engines, those who favour certain old railroad companies; some like to research rolling stock, not being happy until their boxcar or gondola or whatever is just right.

I'm one of those people who goes for atmosphere and operations in a model, whether it be on my screen, in my garden or one I've set up at a exhibition - I like to stand and enjoy how a model looks, the environment around it, vegetation, buildings, details. If you like the mood. Even the history. And I like to run trains for some kind of purpose so I tend to go for the shortline/switching routes more than the long haul main lines. I like to 'fiddle around'.

And when I'm driving a route I love to sit and watch the scenery slide by. Having had a go in route editor myself I'm keen to see how others tackle the same animal and enjoy seeing their results. If there's a gaping hole in a tree line and a flat green moonscape is revealed beyond it dents the immersion level somewhat, though that's just me and coming back to the start of this post, I've had my eyes opened by the skills of those who seek other things from a train-sim.

Hello Martin and welcome back. Been a long time since the StL&NA. After a long period of resisting I have finally taken the plunge into the RE. Actually I was dragged into building a route by someone else who went and laid the track, so now I have 200+ miles of scenery and track tweaking to do.Thanhfully there are only two "big cities" on the line, the rest being much smaller. Main problem is the route is in Florida/Alabama and I am in the UK. Still enough about that, this is the V-scale forum and Andre is working his magic on the CM.

Herb confessed:

"I never had a layout with scenery until I got into the sim!"

Almost guilty as well! Never finished the scenery on ANY of my many layouts. Had SOME scenery on all of them... but had more fun simulating railroading on the layouts instead of building scenery.

Martin said:

"I'm one of those people who goes for...

<snip: atmosphere, operations, the environment around it, vegetation, buildings, details.>

...If you like the 'mood'. Even the 'history'. And I like to run trains for some kind of purpose so I tend to go for the shortline/switching routes more than the long haul main lines."

Ditto. As a route developer, it is VERY rewarding to me come as close as practical to creating an overall atmosphere that helps to convey the subject, locale, and theme. Though I had burn-out issues that delayed getting the Ozark Northern finished... the end result was very gratifying. I especially enjoy hearing from an end user about how the overall impact of the Ozark Northern "feels like" an 1890's boomtown railroad.

In addition to the challenge of caputuring "mood" within a route, I also enjoy sharing history with rail enthusiasts via my MSTS efforts. I had one customer tell me (paraphrased): "That's one of the things I like about your routes: They are not only fun, but they also teach me about the history and railroading of the region being modeled."

THAT was a compliment that meant a lot to me.


Mervyn said:

"Been a long time since the StL&NA."

Boy, ain't that the truth... was it 2004 that I released the little StLNA? In V scale years... that was a lifetime ago!!!

Ah yes, STRUCTURES.

Can't really build a route without 'em, right?

Bored tonight... so I scrounged through my texture folders to see if I could come up with enough texture parts to at least build a "filler" structure for use in the middle of a city block. Anyhoo... here's the very first structure for the CM route! It has begun!

Hi Andre!

Looking very very forward for this route! I hope to be
beyond the Betatesters ;-)

I really love this old old steamers!

Christian

cricetes:



Me too!


Christian:

The version of the CM I have on my hard drive right now is not anything like the version I sent to Herb and Steve for evalution/input. That version is already waaaaay out of date and obsolete. Yup, theirs is so "last month".

"I really love this old old steamers!"

I'm such a sucker for them it's pathetic. I can see a neat 1880's - 1890's picture of a railroad scene... and I'm hooked all over again. Just something about it.

All:

Today's experience was a good news/bad news deal:

The good news is that I was able to load up and head off for the Fort Smith and Van Buren historical districts to take some photo texture shots so desperately needed for TOC city structures for the CM (and other) routes.

The bad news is that the day had waaay softer lighting than I hoped for so some of the pictures don't really have much "snap" to them and lack crispness.

The good news is that it didn't rain like the predictions were calling for.

The bad news is my digital camera started doing "odd" things. Leaving town we stopped by the local camera shop to describe the symptoms and was told it was the imaging sensor. In other words: Tick, tick, tick... the self destruct button has been activated and the clock is ticking. Long timer? Short? Who knows?

Soooo... looks like I'm getting ready to drop some $$$ to replace my aging digital camera. Hmmm... didn't have to do this back in the "film" days. My Canon, Yashica, and Pentax 35mm SLR cameras had steel bodies and were bulletproof. Still work to this day. (Except for the Yashica, as I recall.)

However, the good news is I'll be able to purchase FAR more camera for the same funds this old one cost.

Sooo... a day of mixed emotions!

However, later tonight I intend to go through my new batch of pics and see if I can start piecing together some basic structure textures for use. We shall see!