Hi All:

An exciting development (for me): I have "net' met" a fellow that is VERY knowledgable on the Midland Valley railroad and the Coal Belt region in particular.

Anyhoo... he has sent me some data he has unearthed concerning a Midland Valley bridge that will be modeled. Trouble is, I haven't a clue what they should look like. Perhaps one of you can help me out?

Here's the description sent to me:

"It was in the unfinished SHORT LINE MIDLAND VALLEY manuscript that I found the list of steel bridges on the Midland Valley. The James Fork Midland Valley bridge is listed as: 2 100’ thru 35 degree skewed riveted girders. (You’ll have to ask someone else if you need that interpreted)."

What do you think? Do you think the "2/100' thru 35 degree skewed riveted girders" would be similar in construction to the common "girder" style bridge modeled by Lionel and others?

Any input appreciated!

Didn't exactly come across a photo or lay-man's terms for a "2/100' thru 35 degree skewed riveted girders"...BUT...I did come across some bridge engineering terms.

Skew: When the superstructure is not perpendicular to the substructure, a skew angle is created. The skew angle is the acute angle between the alignment of the superstructure and the alignment of the substructure.

So, are they trying to say there is two 100 ft through girders that are set at a 35 skew (angle) from the substructure? The bridge was at an angle over the creek/stream it crossed? I know a couple of engineers (mechanical, not throttle jockeys)...so I'm going to fire off an email to them see what they're brain power can come up with.

Hi Zack!

As for "skew", that's my understanding too. The bridge piers and/or abutments are parallel with the current of the stream/river, yet the track(s) cross at an angle, thus the bridge structure is skewed accordingly.

What I'm struggling with is the "thru... riveted girder" portion.

I know what a "girder" bridge is, as commonly referred to among the model railroad hobby. HOWEVER... you and I both know model railroad terminology ain't always "keerect".

Quick question about your neck of the woods:

North off Zero Street: Where would South 20th street have been had it been built or remained a street? The diamond across the IM&S at AC Junction that lead to a zinc smelter was right against "20th St".

Andre,

Thru Girder means the main girders are above track level and the trains travel between (thru) them. They are used where extra clearance is needed (I guess?)

Pictures are always helpfull!

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/davis/girder.htm

http://bridgehunter.com/category/tag/throu...der/showphotos/

Regards,
David.

David:

Thanks!

A "through girder" bridge is what I thought it was. I do find it odd that such a heavy duty bridge style was used on the Midland Valley. I guess the owners/builders of the line expected big things from it!

Thanks again!

This was the answer I got back from those "other" engineer type:
The 35* skewed means the obstacle (river, road) is crossed at not 90*.

"2 100' " could be either two parallel bridges, one for each of two tracks, or two consecutive bridges to span a 200 foot river.

So, I'd say it was a rather hefty bridge as well. I'm going to assume that it was 200' long...I can't see the MV building a double track bridge down in those woods; but if someone proved me wrong I wouldn't be bothered in the least bit.

Pretty much where Jenny Lind crosses the MoP/FSR. 20th was never named as such...but the all the cross streets go to the 2000 block on the East side of Jenny Lind. The city went through a city wide street renaming about 1900...that's when East/West streets south of Little Rock Ave (Rogers Ave) were re-named in alphabetical order (Dodson is the exception). The streets go through the alphabet twice before going to a different plan south of Zero; I guess Zanesville was longer than what the city wanted to use for the 2nd "Z" by the way. And the North/South streets were numbered (Wheeler, Towson, Jenny Lind are the exception until you get on the east side of town).

Something like this?

As I understand it, the bridge would have looked something like that...but it would have been sitting at an angle across the creek/stream instead of a 90 degree crossing. The pier(s) should have been at an angle to girders...as I understand it.

Larry:

Yep... something like that.


Zack:

You said...



The Sanborn in question actually shows a north/south road just west of the Ft. Smith Smelter Co. labeled:

"County Road (continuation of 20th St.)"

Sooo... your guess is probably better than mine!

Anyrate... it may appear I now have a clue as to what that abandoned industrial property was east of Jenny Lind Ave that I mentioned in another thread.

FWIW: As illustrated on the Sanborn map, the smelter rail spur heads off in a northwest direction once west of the smelter area . Remember that puzzling AC/Frisco connection we discussed some time ago? Could it be that this was a portion of it?

History: The more answers we think we find, the more new questions we raise.

My understanding is that one girder leads the other a bit to cross a non perpendicular obstacle.
So the abutment or pier would be at the angle of the stream, road, etc and the girders are offset to match.

Here is a link to a model pic.

http://texnrails.com/images/track/tms/1200501.jpg

Yeah, who cares about crazy novels (like my wife reads)...hot cup of coffee, laptop for searching on the internet and a couple of historical books is one way to spend a cold damp day. The main library in Ft. Smith has some rather interesting books on the 2nd floor; including the complete series of "The Journal" that's published by the Historical Society of Sebastien County. One of the librarians there claims the index for the Journal is online...but I couldn't find what I was looking for on their website. On a side note...I've often thought Old Jenny Lind is the old streetcar RoW going out to South Ft. Smith; but the handful of maps I've seen don't show it that way.

As far as the industrial ruins you mention...sounds like the pieces are starting to fall into place that your in the right area. If indeed that was a zinc smelter then either ( A )I've gotten some bad information or ( B ) there was three smelters in town. That link for the sourgum mill I posted in another thread was something I wasn't aware was in town. I wonder if that's their water tower that's still standing? Or another industry that was there on the AC between South 24th & 28th??? Several of the old buildings were still standing in '89 when I moved to FSM; but I didn't have much interest in history then. South 28th used to have several tracks in it right off the AC until just a couple of years ago when the city came through and "overhauled" the road on one of their street & drainage improvement projects. The rail may still be under all asphalt, but the evidence is long gone.