I read with amusement Galen's exhortation to get off the bikes and get busy in MSTS and create stuff.

That got me to thinking that it HAS been a while since anything MSTS has been discussed. Sooo... reckon I'll take a stab at that right now...

First off, I'll start this by again saying I sincerely appreciate all of you that have supported my small efforts over the years. Frustrations with RE, MSTS shortcomings, and development in general aside, it really has been an enjoyable journey. I genuinely feel like virtual friends have been an unexpected result of my MSTS dabblings.

MSTS is now 8 years old. That's a looong time in computer years. However, given all the false starts and hopes ("vaporware") by other software companies (including Microsoft), here we are: In spite of other railroad game introductions, MSTS still remains as a viable rail simulation.

As for me (and of course VSC): MSTS is still in the foreseeable future. That part is settled.

What isn't ever fully settled is what I want to do. Soon, the pretty weekend weather will be over, it will be cold and dreary, and the bike riding will begin to be a "sketchy" situation at best. In addition, January looms closer, and I'll start having to work the psgr train almost every Saturday. Given the new rules we work under, I WILL get two days off every week or so... but by mid winter the riding weather is very far and few between. Of course, I don't want to ride a bike on cold, dark weeknights, so my biking opportunities will be getting less frequent. (Which is why I'm hitting it hot and heavy right now!)

Lastly, I'm already feeling some urge to get back to creating stuff in RE. So, the long, dark evenings are beginning to pull me in that direction.

Soooo.....

That in mind, if'n you want to Sonny, pull up a chair, and I'll spin you a yarn or two along that line... (You know... that little Papa Smurf smiley reminds me of Uncle Herbie!)

Diesel Stuff:

My long time love for the Frisco in the Ozarks notwithstanding, when my desire to create something diesel in MSTS returns, I'm still very much interested in the C&O/B&O in the Thurmond, WV area. There was a thread a while back that shared that idea and looked at the virtues of such an approach. It looks like a great area with several options. I still need track data, but even if no more surfaces, I could forge ahead and do the best I can. This idea is probably going to be my diesel direction.

Steam Stuff:

This isn't so easy, and has been a bit of a perplexation for me.

The 1885 Colorado Central idea still appeals. But I've learned that there are severe issues with the need for dual gauge rails in Golden. This is mainly due to the limited functionality of dual gauge track in MSTS. This is quite a blow. I don't know how I would work around it, or if I will. Then there's the lack of equipment that I've mentioned before. Time will tell on this route idea. This one may simply serve as a pacifier for me to pop in my mouth when I want to tinker with narrow gauge?

Ozark Northern Ver. 2: Track is 95% finished, essentially only the logging line's rails remain. Track laying went fast. Candidly speaking, the extension happened for one reason alone: Path of least resistance. That is, there already exists a wonderful collection of equipment for it, many, many reusable scenic objects exist for it, as well as terrtex, et al. BUT... when I look at the extension... I'm not satisfied with the result. Hard to get motivated to further a project if something is nagging at you about it. Deep down inside I think the biggest factor that is hurting this idea for me is the very thing that created it to start with: It is proto-lanced. Proto-lancing, as well as freelancing, in MSTS offers tremendous opportunity to explore the fun and creative side of railroading... BUT: When finished, you have a railroad that didn't exist. For some odd reason, that is beginning to bother me more and more. So, I don't know what I'll do with this one, either.

A Different Steam Idea: Then there's one that I've essentially kept under wraps, but is slowly gaining ground in the "how 'bout this one?" category. It is more complex than any of my previous steam undertakings, but as it develops, it would offer nigh-unlimited operational potential. It would almost have to be finished/released piecemeal. No way I would be able to get ALL of it finished prior to releasing.

Basically, this route concept explores a region, as opposed to a particular railroad. However, the Frisco would take center stage and be the prominant line. Essentially, I would be replicating what I've been calling the "coal belt" region here where I live. You would never guess it now, but in the TOC era, coal was being mined EVERYWHERE in the region I live in. The target era of 1908 would yield the following lines that would be represented in greater or lesser degrees:

Frisco
Midland Valley
Iron Mtn & Southern
Arkansas Central
Kansas City Southern
Ft. Smith & Western
Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific

All of the above co-existed and interchanged in an area about 35 miles square. Today, almost no coal branch rails remain. In fact, rail served coal is almost non-existant, as is coal mining.

Below is an older map I prepared some time ago that helps to illustrate what I'm talking about. Bear in mind that the map is long out of date. On the current version of this route project, the rails have already reached Ft. Smith, been layed all the way to Mansfield, and the MV is in place to Greenwood as well as southwest out of Greenwood. Interchanges and trackage rights abound and I can see no reason whatsover for this route to EVER get "old" operationally IF I ever actually completed it.

As for equipment, we already have a good start with the models used in the North Arkansas pack. Throw in some reskinning and clone work and lo: A nice roster to begin with. Plus, John Flemming created and released some excellent freeware rollingstock, many of which are applicable to the target era. John's work is available at Train-sim.com, as well as Elvas Tower (I think).

I dunno'... me and MSTS are a strange pair... but I still enjoy it, and it could be that I would like to see what happens with my Coal Belt idea?

What are your thoughts?

I like that "coal belt" idea. I cant think of any routes currently available that have any decent amount of "other road" trackage beyond the central theme of the route.

Mervyn

I'm liking it too, Mervyn.

There will be portions that will be a challenge in the realm of holding tile count reasonable... but so MUCH railroading possible. Incredible.

As for multiple roads:

If I get it completed enough, one would actually be able to work "jobs" on various of the lines. Though the KCS, Arkansas Central, and IM&S wouldn't be comprehensive, there should be enough Ft. Smith industry to allow Ft. Smith switch jobs on those roads. Don't know how much of the Ft. Smith & Western I can model, in view of remaining object count for the tile(s) in question. If enough, then there's another Ft. Smith switch job to do.

The Frisco will have multiple job opportunities, as will the Midland Valley.

The business on the Rock Island can probably sustain a switch job at Hartford and possibly Mansfield. Plus, there would be the Rock Island psgr train that ran via trackage rights over the Frisco from Mansfield to Ft. Smith and return.

There would be city switching, including some "alley" switching, yard switching, industry switching, locals with local switching, passenger trains, mine turns, mine switchers, interchange...

Like I said, so MUCH can be done with this.

There aren't any large mountain grades. This isn't to say there aren't pulls that will require good steaming habits... just not mountains and mountain grades as is the case on the Ozark Northern. That so, I don't see any dedicated "helper" service regions being needed. However, so much IS available, I suspect that aspect won't be missed.

Coal is simply EVERYWHERE. I'm talking dozens of mines scattered out through the region.

FWIW, here's a few pics of prototype mines that were in the region that would be modeled...

And another...

And last one for now...

I"ll be the first to admit that all of the "coal belt" operations were gone before my time (even the last of them in diesel era). But the RoW are still here and there, so I sort-of know were some of these mines and line were at. With that said, I've often thought the MV and Frisco operations around Jensen, Midland, Rock Island and Mansfield/Huntington would be quite active as far as operations go. Of course what areas I've been to were the strip mines that used large (and I stress large) earth moving equipment, so they weren't the same operations as the 1908 era.

I'm only into the diesel thing, 1st generation preferred but I can do the dash 2 era and newer. Your creativity as a builder is high grade so perhaps with that in mind you could focus on a route that could be easy to run anything on

Andre,

You have repeatedly proven your concept and development abilities! I like late steam/early diesel but early steam is fun too. What I really like is that word "switching". Maybe its because I've never been a railroader but, running a mainline often puts me to sleep. No insult intended to those of you who prefer the mainline!


Go where your ideas lead you. I'm sure we will enjoy the results!!

Bill

Hi Andre,

There is still life in MSTS for me, I really enjoy running your Ozark & Northern!

I also like MSTS UK steam add-ons. I recently bought Making Tracks Evesham Branch route (direct purchase from website). It's a hoot! The route is as it was in the 50's before its closure, and is mostly steam freight/passenger ops- some with DMUs. Some activities have multiple steam consists chugging through a large station/yard.

I don't know if you have heard about this across the pond but-
I've got to hand it to those railfans in the UK- they actually built a NEW steam loco from scratch and it is running-

"The Tornado, a £3m Peppercorn class A1 Pacific, was built by enthusiasts in Darlington over a period of 18 years. "

Here's a link to a BBC story about it-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7536023.stm

Erika Eick

[quote

I dunno'... me and MSTS are a strange pair... but I still enjoy it, and it could be that I would like to see what happens with my Coal Belt idea?

What are your thoughts?
[/quote]

Andre, thanks for the kind words and just to let you know about planned freeware, a "Frisco" 41 foot box and a "Chicago Rock Island & Pacific" 34 foot box both 1900 vintage. Should fit right in with this route. John Fleming

Oh Oh...oops..I made the first line of a post LOL...Uh.... I like all the Ideas...and you can ride that motorcycle too... Don't want any "gangs" coming after me!!!!

I really like the Thurmond thing...boy would that be great with steam in the 40's and 50's!

All sound pretty interesting!

Best Regards,

Galen

Wow! Look at all the input! Cool.

Let me get to it...


Howdy Zack:

Don't cut yourself short. In the couple decades you've been in the Ft. Smith area, you've already learned a TON about its rail/traction history. In the future, hopefully I can glean some more info from you concerning the Suburban RR.


Hey Kevin:

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Unfortunately, "do all" routes have to make compromises somewhere, typically substantial. Vehicles, industry types, architecture, RR physical plant, et al, set the era. This is why when I started with the 1903 era St.LNA route with the intention of morphing it into the 1980's A&O Sub... once I plucked all the 1903-looking stuff out, very few structures remained! All I had left was trees, a few buildings... and track, bridges, etc, etc, that needed to be heavily reworked! Sort of shocked me, actually.

Anyhoo... fret not. I'm sure the diesel itch will rear its head, and when it needs to be scratched, I think the C&O/B&O circa mid-60's ala Thurmond, WV will be just like calamine lotion for it.


Hi'Ya Bill:

Appreicate the kind words from you, too. I think switching, and lots of it, will be zero problem with the Coal Belt idea.


Hi Erika:

I'm very glad you're enjoying the Ozark Northern! Ever so slowly, the sales continue to creep along. Wish more simmers would give early steam a whirl!

Interesting info you shared about the railfan-built steam engine!


Sir John:

You're welcome on the words: You earned 'em! Looking forward to your Frisco and CRIP boxcars. You are a godsend to us MSTS TOC'ers!

Concering equipment: I foresee suitable steam engines and cabeese being the greatest hurdle. Between Jon Davis' and John Flemming's rollingstock fleets... we're going to be in pretty good shape in that realm. it's those bloomin' engines!


Finally, to Galen:

So I take it you're another vote for the Thurmond idea later?


All:

I'll check in later tonight. Right now... I'm fixin' to head off to Excelsior, Arkansas and (hopefully) finish the Midland Valley yard there. I'm having to "wing it", as no hard data exists for it. Shucks... I'm just glad that I THINK I have figured out where it was. (Trust me: There is NOTHING at Excelsior, Arkansas now.)

One thing that I REALLY like about the Coal Belt idea: It's right here in my own backyard (region)!

I can do field checks, get textures of surviving "correct" structures, as well as scenery textures, and so forth. Ft. Smith and Van Buren have some really nice historical structures, as well as many of the outlying towns. You never know what will turn up!

Anyhoo... off to Excelsior...

I find it incredibly interesting to drive around Fort Smith and find all the old abandoned spurs and structures along the old RofW. Its also nice to check on Google Earth and follow the old "coal belt" lines through south of Fort Smith. I really wasn't around when any of this stuff was going around, but through the miracle of internet and other people that have submitted photos and track maps of these old lines to magazines, I now know a lot about the old lines.

Barry:

I also find it interesting to revive the old lines in MSTS and then see what they looked like from the cab seat!

All:

I finished Excelsior. This is milepost 0.0 for the Midland Valley. Below you'll find an RE grab. What you're seeing from left to right (i.e. the forked tracks on the left):

Rip 2
Rip 1 (Car barn will be here.)
Track 3
Track 2
Track 1
Main
Coach Track
Caboose & Utility Track
Eng Service Track 1
Eng House Track
Eng Back Track

I expect there to be adjustments when I start to scenic the area.

Last little tidbit for now. Here's a "current state" AE grab, annotated accordingly.

Note that the SLSF goes from Ft. Smith to Jensen and splits west/east. West (timetable south) heads off for Poteau and points south. East heads to Hackett. From Hackett, the SLSF swings map south to Montreal, crosses the MV and ends at Mansfield to connect with the Rock Island.

The MV shares trackage with the SLSF from Ft. Smith to Maney Jct. West will head for Panama and points west. East heads to Hackett, then over to Excelsior. From Excelsior it can go to Greenwood to connect with the IM&S, or south/south west to cross the SLSF at Montreal, down through Midland, and onto Hartford to also connect with the Rock Island.

This is only PART of what all happens in the area. However, I've got a good start on it.

Andre,

The "Coal Belt" idea has interest for me. Especially the "working jobs" idea. I remember from my model railroad jobs on a friends large layout that was what you did. Worked the local switch job in several towns. A manifest freight would come into town just as you clocked on and drop off that tricks cars, pick up those left from the last tricks crew and leave town. Then we would set to work with our switch orders and deliver the cars to the proper sidings or set them on the side if a siding was full or not ready. Last thing was to set the block of cars for the next manifest to pick up. It would be interesting if it could be set up that an AI manifest would pull into town, drop off cars and leave and then we could come off the spot and set to work. The route could be set in either all steam or perhaps protolanced into the late steam/early diesel era of the late 40's - early 50's.

Paul

After giving it some thought Andre, I believe that I would throw my vote towards the Coal Belt as well. Running the ON is outstanding, and the helper activities are great ( you know, the AI steam locomotives moving around, and realistic train handling etc...You gotta love the ET6 Brake valve!). I think the turn of the century would be outstanding. 1900-1920. Grit, dirt and grime.."Fat Boilered Consolidations..Vauclain Compounds, and High headlighted 2-10-2. Cabooses with markers... the mix of wooden and steel coaches.. I could go on! Get Mr. Davis and Mr. Hobbs to Work!

By the way..you are right.. I wish more folks would try the T.O.C steam and equipment..it is way more challenging, and more rewarding as well. I like to run a diesel in MSTS, but no matter what, I always take a "spin" now on the ON before I shut down for the night! Great Job!

Best Regards,

Galen

This is good! I wondered when you would leave the "Coal Belt" out of the bag. Can't keep a good man down ...

Oh boy! More input! That gives me the opportunity to blither-on some more!

Paul:

As we discussed above, that is one thing that this idea would offer: LOTS of operation. Shame that none of the current batch of sims have AI that performs meaningful purpose. (As in setting out/picking up blocks/cuts of cars.) However, functional AI, if only for some operational challenge (meets/etc) and eye candy... is better than no functional AI at all!

Galen:

Right you are on the "grit and grime" world of TOC railroading. Pictures of same illustrate that to be so. Love the look. Hope I can capture it. As for power, in the case of the Coal Belt roads, so far my research indicates the norm will not be medium-sized steam. (i.e. "fat boilered consolidations" and such.) Even though the region was quite active and produced lots of carloads, these lines were secondary in nature, especially when compared to the C&O, PRR, and such during the same era. Thus, smaller/older power on the rosters of the bigger line's of the region was used.

Steve:

Well... it's certainly of a grand scope... but the subjects, theme, and locale is among the best I've ever come up with for TOC steam.