Probably much to the chagrin of RSDL, I'm still toying with RS! I thought I would show some pics here as well.



In case you're not familiar with what I'm doing here, I began an evaluation in the much maligned RS and have found it thus far very friendly to work with. At this time I consider RS another toy in the sandbox so please keep any responses on the positive side. This is simply a test route I've been working on. Thanks!

Rich Garber

Absolutely excellent Rich - second shot in particular has great lineside atmosphere.

Rod

Thanks Rod, one of the things I really really like about RS is you can fill up a scene. I haven't gotten to the small stuff yet, still lots of importing to do. With MSTS you have to watch what you do balancing all the objects put down in regards to polys and objects. RS is more liberating in that there isn't an object count or even tile to worry about. So detailing is much easier if that's your preferance. - Rich

Well, I am just impressed at how realistic RS really can be - what helps in that third shot is the absence of the KUJU "large leaf" trees - the default ones. They might look better that MSTS default, but I don't understand why they used such abnormally large foliage. RSDL's treepack and Marcs new pack have certainly addressed that issue.

Looking forward to seeing some more.

Rod

At this juncture I see RS being great for creating scenes. Small track plans but highly detailed like the one I'm playing with now. That's not to say a full route couldn't be done. It's just that it's so tempting to keep detailing an area to death to make it more life-like. A long route of that would take forever I think. I'm just starting to import smaller objects now to finish out the scenes.

I'm starting to rely a lot on RSDL's foilage pack and Marc's because my own trees need fixing. RS's trees rotate so the flat side is always facing you. In MSTS we used two polys and it works, but it gets distorted at certain angles. So I have to go back and revamp all my vegetation. Rather than take the time to do it right now, I plan on doing that after I finish this route.

Rich

Well Rich, there is as much realism and "gameplay" to be had in a small route with realistic switching opportunities as there is in a 200 mile Class A.

For certain one of the really great pleasures of RS is to watch engines go slowly by, performing short switching moves. That, combined with a few miles of open track in a relatively short area would be sufficient to keep a lot of folks very content.

Rod

Thanks Rod, I appreciate that. Sometimes it's way too complex of a subject for just one person to explain all the ramification of what works in the environments we play in and you did a great job encapsulating my thoughts exactly.

Okay, here's some more pics. I posted these over at T-S in the Rail Sim forum and my guess I'll be chatised soon for not posting them in the Screenshot forum but let me say here that these areas are not completed. These are simply progress pics where I intend to add more detail. But to the average looker they may seem complete because in RS you can do a great deal more detail in a singular area whereas in MSTS you also have to be concerned with that area's effect of the overall tile. This forced me, because I like to detail heavily, to be very contentious and compromise a great deal. It forced me to strategize placement and even how I create objects. This is becoming apparent in RS and a liability as these strategies don't appear to be necessary. Let's take a look at these pics more indepth.



This pic looks fairly complete, but if I raise the camera just a few feet higher, the area behind the Foundry and other distant buildings is relatively empty. This is busy pic but let's do some quick analysis. Note that the foreground and middle are heavily detailed. But note too that smaller details are missing. This will be a great scene when it's completed. Think of an onion and its layers. As you get closer there shouldn't be less detail, but more. I'm finding with RS you can push the boundaries of adding detail.



I've listened to the naysayers for RS a lot and let me show you guys something. Now here's a neat pic. You got a lot of interest from the foreground to the background. Some of it is coming from the ground terrain texture itself. The grass coming up from the gravel is being done by RS. Now somebody could say they don't think that's all that great. Understood. But look at this. How long have I been working in RS? Three weeks, let's say. How long have I been working in MSTS? Seven years. The problem I have with much of the 'nay sayings' is they dismiss it takes even the best of us time to hone our skills. Painting terrain is very new to me just as editing was for me back in 2001 when I experimented with my first MSTS route. When you start something new, you gotta start somewhere, right? So you start at the beginning. I believe too many jumped too quickly too steadfast conclusions too quickly. I said all along, give RSDL a chance to finish the sim. It's not finished. But while it's not finished, you can do an awful lot with it. In time, I believe much that which ails the sim now will be worked out. But it's foolhardy to think that in so short a period of time you can reach the same level you have in MSTS experience.



I've always liked scenes like this. There are two compelling "pulls" in this pic. First, you have the fence pulling your eye to the middle of the picture which also happens to "pull" you to the second interesting part of the picture, the overhead bridge. The two foreground trees are from Marc's pack, I believe and note these are only single poly trees. My trees are the typical trees we use in MSTS and they just don't look as good as say Marc's trees. One reason being is the distortion you get with two poly trees. In RS the tree always faces you. Kinda funny to watch it happen in the editor, you don't really see it happening in the sim though.

One of the things I feel like I'm coming up against is enough folks folding their arms and staking a position out that it can't happen for them. I hear "not enough objects" in the library, or "it doesn't look that good" or somebody tried something and it didn't happen like it should've. Well, this is a Kuju product... we can't deny that. But the big part of it again is so many people made up their minds way too quickly. I really expected this to be a wretching experience, a complete waste of time. That's the honest to goodness truth. I really came into this dragging and kicking my feet.

I could tell you there are things that kick my butt. Nope, there are issues though, but none of them are so overwhelming. I'll tell you one. That grass gets everywhere. Unfortunately RSDL only gave me one ground texture that doesn't include grass and guess what that one is of... grass. It's stupid. But hear me. In time they'll be more ground terrain textures and I plan on making my own. The point is, I'm not going to throw out something this good just cause I haven't got one part of it totally licked yet.

I used to argue earlier this year that the msts vets who tried, all quit RS. That to me was such a bad sign. But what I didn't factor in is none of these guys started at the beginning either. They jumped right into what they did or do best in MSTS. I'm not blaming them, I'm just saying that here I am, a route builder, and for me to learn route building there's only one place to start; at the beginning. So these guys didn't get too far but worse, the prevailing opinion at the time was the sim was no good. Two patches later I'm zipping through building a route. So what went wrong? Maybe we were just too itchy to succeed before we even got to know the sim.

Now this is a lot of ifs and I honestly didn't plan on talking this much about this. But the more I play with this editor, and even though it's a bit gamey looking for my taste, it's simple enough that if you would like to do your own work, you'll make far better tracks (I don't mean railroad tracks) with RS. Mostly everything I've done I have picked up myself without the benefit of manuals or help.

I know I keep saying the same things over and over but I am at a complete loss just why we don't like RS. It's not perfect. But I'll say this right here and now. Messing with RS has taught me to be more critical of MSTX. And why? Cause folks are going to have to learn it too. And why do folks think it will be any easier to learn than RS or MSTS? I believe there's a rude awakening coming for many in late 2009. I'm not even sure they have even talked about the editors yet, have they? I'm not against MSTX but learning RS is teaching me to temper my expectations.

Rich

Rich - I'm sure I have already mused on the UKTS frum that MSTS2 might not be the bed of roses we would expect. Terms like "scenery layers" or "SDK" are enough to convince me that the Everyman's Sandbox route editor we got used to in MSTS and TRS may be obsolete with more specialised products needing, to put it bluntly, a bigger brain than many (myself included) possess!

With World of Subways already receiving high praise from those who bought the download version, I've got a feeling the train sim is moving away from the home development scene altogether. It may well become the purview of professional developers/studios who have the resources to put out standalone simulations at a level of detail, quality and integration (i.e. doesn't look like the objects have been plonked on terrain in a World Builder) on a par with other retail PC games like GTA and COD etc.

However, you make a very good argument for persisting with RS and as I noted in the other thread, maybe an extended model "pike" is the way to go.

I have said the very same thing myself, but quietly to other payware vendors. But not just about MSTS2, I thought the same was going to happen with TMTS and RS. I can see better where RS can still work in our home-spun way favor though. It's easy enough to build a route, but mastering great looking objects and then mastering the advanced 'stuff' in RS might be more time consuming. It's that not we can't compete with the pros except they do it for a living where most of us do this in our spare time which is the advantage they have, IMO.



In the early days of MSTS1 routes were crashing like flies all of a sudden and the word went out for folks to do a 1 tile route to get the whole scope of route building rather than try to take the whole thing on and learn as you go. It was good advice. I felt the same would be needed here as well. It wasn't until I finished a route that I began to understand how much the activities were effected by the way track was laid.

I like the idea of model pikes from a route builder's perspective because in a prototypical route, which I will define as mostly if not all, is linear. Hence you always have to work each area from 360 panaroma. A pike that loops takes some of that burden off of the route builder because some views are already established because they're in full view. Plus it gives you a better means to create scenes. I understand that a railfan which most of our community is the make-up of, won't see this as a big plus. Hence, my ad in Model Railroader to appeal to that community which might.

Looking at Model Railroader these days, I am astounded at the prices. I plan on doing another N-scale layout myself and it's a two-quarters gulp to imagine the ultimate cost. One could easily supplement that hobby "while the glue dries" with short model railroad like routes to do activities on. Or.... OR.... run shotter MSTS routes likewise.

With me it doesn't matter if it's model railroading or HO,N,S,O scale railroading. V Scale gives me the opportunity to explore how the real railroads do it in a familiar and graphically intenseive environment I can't do in regular model railroading. Model railroading on the other hand gives me that hands on crafting I like to do just as much in an environment favorable to what I like. It's the best of both worlds!

Rich G

Here's a picture from today's results



A small switcher fueling station in what is an abandoned railroad servicing center.

Rich G

Excellent work.
A route like your phantastic Canton, highly detailed in KRS, would be an absolute dream for me.

Regards,
Klaus

Thanks Klaus!

And three more pics.



The first two are just a little character from the route and the 3rd pic is of some default 'really big' boulders I came across and thought they be nice to use in the route.

Hollywood is back!

Hold on while I don my Spielberg look-alike glasses... I took the day to give this a try and I posted a Rail Simulator movie of my route here at Ed's place:

What I did for my summer's vacation

It's 108 megs download but the clarity is fairly good. The video is about 3:22. It was more an impromptu thing without any real theme in mind though it moves from the engine fuel depot to the coal mine up in the mountains. I wasn't really trying to show off RS, I was just trying to make a quickie movie. The music is actually a piece that comes with some music software I own but I redid the sounds to be just a wee bit better than it was. In other words, a quickie job there too.

Rich *Hollywood* G

With a movie out of my system (see previous post) I've been back importing objects into RS and have a look.





Rich

Mr. Rich Garber - I taught him everything he knows.

Cheers!
Marc

Got some new pics. Work on the route has been steady and I even learned a new thing or two. Let's look at some pics. The first is a distant shot and then a zoom shot to better explain the onion effect I was talking about somewhere...



Two things. In the first pic let your eyes run down main street and can you see how those distant buildings are just as filled in with detail as the foundry in the foreground? Now let's close in on the foundry and get a close-up of Marc's Scale Track. You can almost smell the creote can't you?

Here's an area I've been working on tonight.



With RS you can put a scene together. But hold on. This scene goes on and on... and on. With no effect on fps. For this scene I used Marc's foilage pack on the foreground with my own trees doing background work. A combination of ballast, green, bare and dark grass compliment the ground as well as RSDL foilage pack. My own underbrush filling in the gaps.

Rich

Looking seriously beautiful Rich - and realistic

Rod

Thanks Rod!

Here's two more pics where I'm doin' some free-roaming checking on some things. I gave myself the task of pushing some empty coal hoppers under a track chute and picking up 3 full coal hoppers to take back to the yard. The first pic is coupling up to the empties and the 2nd shot is stopped where a tall rr bridge is in the background just before I pull the empties under a chute.



Today I spent some time correcting a texture issue which happens with 3dC. It caused me to rebuild the original shapes in TSM and then reimport the shape into RS.

Rich

G'day Rich,

These screen shots are brilliant and just proves your capabilities at route making. Well done, they almost look like photo's

Denis

Thanks Denis!

Now for us route builders, the next three shots... I mean... delicious! I appreciate that for you guys who are all about grease and wheels and belching smoke, this won't mean much to you. But for me, it's atmosphere! It begs a story. It frees the mind to roam what could be. Let's take a look.



Simple farm scene but note the fencing. Guess how long it took me to place that fence? *starts stopwatch* Hmmm? *stops stopwatch* Yep, it took that long. But again note the ground is uneven and even slopes back there by the cows. This is what's called a Loft object. You can make your own but right now I'm depending on what's in the default to help me get by. Laying the fence is like laying track. And because there's a snap to ground feature, you just be careful you keep an eye on what the Loft laying tool is telling you and you're fencing will follow the ground sloping just like that. In MSTS, that's easily a half-hour to forty-five minutes laying that fencing and that's with a whole lot of errors and frustration.

Now let's go to the backside of the farm for a couple more pics...



From here you can see the bridge just barely from the backside of farm. *sigh* Ain't that pretty? This far out and that much detail. But now, let's turn to my right just slightly.



That's what I'm talking about. Lemme tell you what I think is making that picture. That's a Marc tree, a loft fence, my tree to the right. And that's RS weeds on the ground. But look below the tree. It's not a shadow, it's just darker grass suggesting a shadow. But it's what you expect to see from a scene like that. Gorgeous... simply gorgeous. And no I didn't plan this scene, it's just piddling I did while working the area and just happen to notice it while taking the first two pics. The only thing missing is a pretty blue sky with fluffy clouds...

Rich G

A masterly understatement Rich

Rod

Rick I am so happy to see what you are doing, I have all your MTS Routes they are fantastic.

However I think your Metro Route is as far as MTS can be taken. I think your effort in RS will

help this Sim to capture North American Customers Interest,due to excellent Routes being

developed,People will become interested.

I have just started using RS with mk2 Patch and I like it,even the Scenario Editor is easy to use,

I have just made a Scenario Bath to Evercreech using Steam Passenger Train and eight AI traffic

Trains,and all it took was 15 Minutes !! Thats right 15 Minutes and it works!!!

Waiting to buy your next Product

Thanks Walter! I appreciate the feedback and you're purchasing of my routes. I believe you hit the nail on the head with your comment about taking MSTS as far as we can as far as scenery density goes. Here's a new pic:



Rich

OK! OK! I know I'm not up to Rich's standards yet, but it IS a start. An SW1200 in RS.

It is all Rich's fault!!!!!!! It does work though!!!!! A bit more complicated than scenery

Dick

Now we're talking! Yea Dick!

Who... me!???


Rich

OK here is the next stage. So far so good.
Now for the aminations, cab and other settings.

"aminations"????? Well it is getting late!!!!!

Dick

How about a GG1?

Not yet. Let me get this GP9 sorted first!!!!

That's pretty fast Dick... but what happened to the sw1200? The FLC looks great! Got the perfect route for it. Knew ya could do it! - Rich G

I've been working with scenarios and well, they are different, I'll say that. The biggest problem I'm having is finding a tutorial which covers scenario (what a dumb name...) creation from start to finish. I have two completed but I have no way of checking my work to see if the way I did them was the best way to do them.

Okay, back to the route for a moment. I've been adding some track just to spice up activity making and mainline running just a tad. I've added two passing sidings and an extra auxillary track. Today I plan on starting the manual for the route. I hope to be done this week. Here's an overhead shot of some of the new track added in the route. The little blue cubes? Thos will be switchstands when ready.



Rich G

This is looking really good! It's making me want to go an buy KRS more and more, but I don't have spare money

You can get RS pretty cheap. Most places sell it for $10 plus shipping. Do a search like "where can I buy Rail Simulator". I came up with three Buy.com, Toys R Us, and someplace called HSN. I think Amazon has it for a couple of bucks more at the most. Good hunting!

Rich

Rich,

You do beautiful work with KRS! Your screenshots were a true inspiration for me to try new things with this platform. And it is sure great to follow your work's progress from the beginning on, thank you very much for providing this in-depth pictorial documentation of RS route building.

Dick,

It is great to see you are experimenting with RS, too! Good luck, your outstanding modeling work would make a very welcome addition to the game!

Thank you, gentlemen!

Cheers!
Michael

Thanks Michael, appreciate your post! - Rich

Quick question Rich - how are you finding the terrain painting and/or have you found any option to copy and paste a "good" mix from one area to another? It appears unlike MSTS (with its pre-prepared terrtex tiles) or TRS (where you can mix some good terrain texture combos then copy and paste), RS requires you to do it all longhand. In the case of my current route start with an undercoat of Dark Grass, then work up splodges (sorry, layers) of Bare Grass and Rock. The problem is as I say time as you have to do that individually for every 1km square tile.

I'm getting quite into the RS route building but have to say the processes are definitely more geared towards building short routes, rather than the behemoth MSTS and TRS opuses we have seen.

The only redeeming factor with terrain painting is at a draw distance of more than about 2km it blurs into a muddy haze. And I do miss forest objects as a means to quickly populate trees. The RS foliage pack sloped trees help, but not much use if you have a mountain-side at a much steeper angle than the scenery item. Again I have to say RS seems more optimised to building flat or plains style routes rather than those with towering mountains.

Still I'm persevering, the end result may well be junk but at least I will have tried!

Hey Vern,

"how are you finding the terrain painting and/or have you found any option to copy and paste a "good" mix from one area to another? It appears unlike MSTS (with its pre-prepared terrtex tiles) or TRS (where you can mix some good terrain texture combos then copy and paste), RS requires you to do it all longhand."

My first impression of RS when it first came out (I had the UK version) was it looked so good that I didn't think I could compete with even the default. About the time I got started with it again I took a second look at the default and my opinion was the opposite. Out of scale, textures are too gaudy looking, too plain, etc. So I went into RS with the premise, I'll use what of the default I have to, but after that - I'm using my own stuff. And the same with the ground textures. Eventually I'll replace the default with my own including that sappy green. I'm assuming I can. As for how it's done, if I can create my own, let's just call it terrain.ace for now, then I would use that as my base undercoating. But so far my observations are the same. What I do is make the brush stroke huge. You can plug in a large number and paint large swaths of ground very quickly.

"The only redeeming factor with terrain painting is at a draw distance of more than about 2km it blurs into a muddy haze. And I do miss forest objects as a means to quickly populate trees."

Ditto on the terrain distance issue. In regards to forest objects I agree to a point. I began hiding forest objects in MSTS as much as I could. I came up with static objects I could place that I felt better represented a forest and then used forest objects to fill in the gaps (so to speak). Forest objects in MSTS are horrible because they build the tree wrong. The RS solution of no Forest Objects is not a good idea either. For one, like you say, you can do mountainsides easier. Second, you can place objects in mass in RS but they don't conform to the terrain until you come back the second time and make them conform. That can be a real pain if you got converging track nearby and you need to make the trees conform to the ground. I use that mass selector technique where you draw a circle on the ground and then hit J. If you grab a piece of track by mistake... oops! But all in all, the effect of massed trees using static objects became so overwhelmingly better in MSTS, I was moving that direction to hardly use Forest Objects at all. But done right, I think we need them in RS too.

"I'm getting quite into the RS route building but have to say the processes are definitely more geared towards building short routes, rather than the behemoth MSTS and TRS opuses we have seen."

Well, MSTS was that way too. Folks built the longer routes but typically left the detailing at sparse or they worked for months on end or years. Take Wayne Campbell's or the Feather River, arguably the two best routes in MSTS, and those were both done in 4 years time. My route is shorter, but it's about 16-20 miles long done in 1 month's time. If they would get the lighting right, RS would be the perfect replacement for me for MSTS.

As for mountain issue. I came to the conclusion the same about MSTS. In fact, with the EMRR Rebuild the whole route is hand carved terrain, did ya know that? And I came to the conclusion that when I do my next MSTS, it too will be hand carved. The problem is doing a route in MSTS is a balancing act because everything you do is defined by the tile. Using hand carved terrain I could further balance the equations of objects vs. fps by constricting the route at times. A good example of this is the town of Wayne and Clarksville. In each instance my object count was getting so high I pulled the mountains in closer towards the end of the tile so I wouldn't have to place to many more objects. And my hills? I just made them large enough to work with my tree objects to suggest hills.

See, the difference and when you use dems is you lose control. If the area is demmed and is a vista, with a town, you can major problems trying to fill that area with scenery and a town too. Most can't solve the equation and so they use large out-of-scale objects to do the filling. And then they don't detail much because the object count is getting high. Those two equal fps issues and stuttering. In the case of a route like Feather River, you got mountains and valleys so tall, above and below you, you got not only a horizontal issue, but a vertical one as well. How to populate an area this way to any reasonable degree? No, the problem with MSTS is it takes more imaginatation and faith to accept the sparsity of detail hence the community has turned more railfans than model railroaders.

I'm saying both sims, for me, are not very conducive to large mountains. With RS it's like you say. The distant mountains and no Forest Objects would make populating a mountain with scenery a difficult task at best. I have this philosophy, because I'm payware and can't take a long time to do a route and that it has to work for a variety of computers, is shorter is better. What I'm doing with RS presently is not what I did with MSTS. Long ago, before Canton, I had this idea of doing track layouts. It's no accident I chose the route I did for my first RS route. I'll explain this concept when I release the route.

The best way I can put my philosophy is because RS is a keeper for me, something to use along side of MSTS, I'll take what RS can give me. It has a lot of strengths, but weaknesses too. I'll stay with strengths and avoid the weaknesses. This philosophy may not work for you. But I have that extra issue of having to deliver an above par route for being payware, rather than fight with doesn't work, I go for what does. That's how I get a long with either of the sims. Take and work with what it gives you and wait for somebody to fix the rest.

This is why I said in a previous post here or somewhere that Model Railroading has this advantage over what we do in the virtual world. With Model Railroading you have complete control over the layout. You can build from scratch or buy what you need. We unfortunately have to work with what somebody else decides is best for us.

Sorry, no time to proof, I'll do that later!

Rich

Okay, it's been awhile since I posted about 'the distraction' here's an update. It's mostly done. The past week or so I've been working with scenarios and that took some readjusting of 'the distraction.' I just wrote a novel answering Vern and would hate to write another but here's what I think the deal is with the scenarios.

I'm about to go off on a long tangent...

There seem to be some hard and fast rules that we didn't have for MSTS. My guess is Kuju would have preferred this kind of setup for RS than they meant with MSTS. I'm just speculating of course but it seems to me less confusing to write scenarios than activities BECAUSE Kuju limited the rules. So now the dispatcher won't throw a manual switch ever. That's one of the biggest differences I'm seeing. The signals are less confusing because you can see what your signals are doing in the overhead map (9). You don't draw a path but you can force a path YOU WANT by using destination markers. This ties your scenarios to the route very intimately.

Okay, remember a lot of people's frustrations with RS scenario writing early on. There ya go, that's why. Without editing the route, once again you are forced to go along with the route author's idea of how that route was meant to be run. And if he didn't put down the destination markers to give you flexibility to do scenarios the way you want, then you'll be frustrated.

I'm probably saying all this prematurely but this is what I've observed so far. You must use destination markers to have some say in how your path goes. And this will be the same for AI trains as well. And given the manual switch issues, this is why I'll bet a lot of folks are frustrated early on.

What would be a big help is if RSDL encodes RS to allow destination markers to be placed in scenario creation mode. What's the likelihood of that happening? Well, does anybody listen to me? No. So good luck! But if you do your own route, which is so easy, you can bypass the frustration or just edit that default route by adding destination markers. Very easy to do!

I'll finish up with one final point and this is an "I told you" so point. One of the points I tried to make in one of these threads was you got a new sim, you go back to square one. A few of the MSTS vets tried to tackle RS by jumping into RS doing what they do best. Sometimes you have to go back to the basics. By tackling a route first AND THEN jumping into scenarios, that helped me to understand the scenarios better. The route is the platform everything runs on and knowing it might just explain why Kuju did some of the quirky things it does.

And to follow that up, this is what helped the original members back in 2001 like me. Back then we had no tools to make anything so the route building forum was the largest forum back then. Everybody was building their own route. When the tools became available folks then went their own way. But it was probably knowing the basics that helped them do what they did going their own way and all.

We've heard some say, "route building is the easiest of all the things to do." Maybe. But if you do it, you understand scenarios easier and so far I've found making the things easy. Like I said to Vern in the last post. You take what the sim gives you. You work with its strengths. RS has a ton of strengths you can take advantage of. Then, as people work together and share what they've learned, then you got a community in the making.

Back off of my soapbox...

At this point the route is packaged and ready to go though I plan a few more things for it. The packaging was incredibly easy. If you would like to run this route here's what you will need. So grab this stuff now.

* I had to remove Scale Rail as Scale Rail isn't ready yet. Once it is I will put it back in the route and it will be an additional item you will need before installing my route.

1) You'll need Cajon Pass. Chances are, most of y'all, already have that.
2) You'll need 3dtrains' Foilage Pack. I totally recommend the $12.50 version.
3) You'll need RSDL's Foilage Pack. It costs $7.00.
4) Then you'll need my route which I will sell at $15.00.



Now I know there's a bunch of you sittin' on the fence about this. With my routes comes a ton of buildings you can use in your own route. You can't upload my objects though. What you can do is create a route that uses my objects but don't include my Assets folder. I know you don't know what I'm talking about now, but if you saw it you would say, 'too easy.' It really is too easy. Then anybody downloading the route will need a copy of my route.

Now folks... anybody fussing about costs will only see their posts removed, deleted, trashed, disintegrated binarily, sliced and diced into oblivion. All those costs add up to hundreds of objects you can use in your own route from here to eternity. You can't redistribute them but you can upload a route that calls them. The only thing the user of your route needs is to have is the packages too.

Give me a few more days, and think about it. All I can say in text format is just trust me. RS is a keeper. It's fun. It's interesting. It looks good.

Rich

Here's a couple of pics I forgot to show earlier. The first is just a quickie shot I took. The second is my first successful meet for the route.



Rich

Well done Rich - I don't know if there will be many, if any, converts, or those coming back, but you sure have placed a very positive marker for the sim.

I can't see myself abandoning MSTS - it has its own atmosphere and delights (oh, and horrors), but I will continue to run RS alongside it, for its totally different atmosphere and delights.

Looking forward to the route

Rod

Rich, I would be interested to hear you elaborate on this a bit. What truly makes these two routes in your opinion? Always enjoying your posts

Thanks Rod! Almost there! And I agree with you. I wouldn't favor one sim over the other. Each has their strengths from the user side. From the developer side, RS is becoming a favorite for me because it is so developer friendly. That's not to say there aren't issues but by and large the positives easily outweight the negatives. Like just losing a whole scenario I just finished...

From SAR: "Rich, I would be interested to hear you elaborate on this a bit. What truly makes these two routes in your opinion? Always enjoying your posts"

In terms of overall technique and appearance and that they were each labors of love - 4 years in the making. I'm not speaking of entertainment value, operation or playability. I speak to strictly a developer's viewpoint on lighting, textures, variability and cohesiveness from end to end of the route. For instance, if I had years as opposed to months to develop a route and didn't have to weigh the consequences of my routes being payware on different platforms I wouldn't make the compromises I do when developing a route and releasing it. I would go full bore. However, Nalle who did the WP route is a huge fan of the WP and likely wouldn't do a route with any other theme. I don't know Wayne much at all and I only know him for the one route and his website devoted to it. Visiting his site he has a wealth of info on the route. I believe the equipment made by Tim Muir for the route project is incredible. Both working together toward a common goal makes this route with rollingstock combination "uncommonly good." And the same could be said of the equipment which comes with the Feather River. Note that I am not discussing an opinion based on activities, frame rate, stutter, profitability, or the individuals themselves except their dedication to the end product.

The rest of us tend to spread our 'love' around and so we're not as devoted to the final representation like these guys put into their efforts. Now don't get me wrong. There are a number of great route builders MSTS has seen. And there are many great routes. These two I elevate in this one sense above even my own routes because of the devotion to them and the years put into them and a loyalty rarely seen like that of a model railroader to his layout.

Others would disagree with my assessment and even I would if certain issues are raised and confronted. But if everything is taken into consideration and added to a summation, the two routes I mentioned from a developer's viewpoint have to be given their due.

Hope this clarifies it a bit!

Rich

The FLC gains running rights through Cottonwood.

At least it doesn't crash if you haven't got the extra scenery packs the developer used. Like good old MSTS does!!!!!!

Dick

Excuse me, Rich. Who is "Wayne" and what route did he create?

Thanks,

Mark

Check out post #34 in this thread. - Rich

I got a laundry list of things to talk about. The route is progressing fine. In fact, I believe I am done. Now in MSTS lingo I would put that like.. I... AM.... DONE!!! I'd be exhausted, fatigued, mentally strained, etc. But with this route, it was a real pleasure to do. No propaganda or cheerleading here, I am just a happy camper that this happened so quickly and almost effortlessly. There were frustrations but I am just so amazed how fast this all went. So, if you want to know the status of the route, it's done. I should have it available shortly. Friday should be the day but I might suprise you and release it sooner. For the past couple of weeks I've been a bit under the weather and I believe I'm just starting to come out of it. All that is left is the manual to do.

Here's pics. I posted these over at train-sim earlier but here's a little info first. This is pretty cool. Now when I say this is pretty cool understand that my first love of trains is model railroading. So one of the ideas I had with this little route was... do ya think? I mean, do ya think it could be done? So I gave it a try. Take a look.



I know what you're thinking. "Okay, Rich, you're in engine #6392, what's the big deal?" But I'm not in engine #6392. Nor am I in the other engine either. And there's not another engine on the route. So where am I? I'm in flyby mode (8 key) the whole time these two engines are running their circuits. Got it? I'm railfanning. I'm tempted to put another consist up on the coal line so a 3rd train is running too. All by itself like the other two. Like a model railroad on display and you can walk anywhere on the route and grab a pic.

BTW, there's ten activities and one free roam. I may get another scenario in or two before I release. I wanted to write more about how to do pathing in a scenario but unfortunately I'm tired. So I'll write more soon.

Rich

What are you talking about Rich - don't you know that RS isn't any good and should be consigned to the trash can or eBay .

What a turnaround and done in such good style as well Rich. I, for one, am truly pleased (typical British understatement - what I mean is Yeeeha! ) that you had a good look at the sim again. It will be interesting to see what effect one of the premier MSTS route builders entering the scene will have. Can't predict, but it has got to be positive.

Rod

Thanks Rod, thanks very much. Well, for a good while, a few months anyway, my copy of RS USA sat in a closet still in the celaphane it was purchased in. I had given my original copy away to Dick Cowen figuring he could make better use of it than I would. I am just as surprised by this as anyone. But it's a pleasant surprise. Lemme just say that working with MSTS has been great these past 7 years. But the bar was getting put up so high that I knew it was going to come down to doing routes in teams before long. And for a payware vendor, that's kinda tough when you're used to being a one man shop. But it can be done still though it's one bit of a workout. And when I started this with RS, I thought this would be worse. Ask the guy who runs RSDL, I went on and on about how with the time remaining in the rest of the year that I could have two MSTS routes out and only if I was lucky could I get out one RS route done and probably a hack job at that. But not only did I build this little RS route in about a month's time, I actually... get a load of this.. I actually had time to pet the dog. I had time to talk to the Mrs. I had time. My family didn't recognize me because for the first time in a long time, they actually got to see something besides the back of my head. Even with all the importing I had to do, I still had time left over to be a normal person. And what's even better, I'm ready to jump back in and do another one. I know there's no chance the masses in MSTS will embrace RS. Doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is having time. Not being stressed out when it's done. Not even needing a vacation from it. It's quite a change of pace I'm not even quite sure how to handle it. Usually by this time I'm getting defensive, anxious, envious.. you name it. This time it's more like... what have am I forgetting? *checks for keys* *checks for lighter, oh yeah, I don't smoke* *reaches for pipe, oh yeah, I don't smoke* Well, I just got up for a few... back to bed!

Rich

I'm closing in on the release with the manual finished now and .... and.... whatever. Here's two more shots I took just fer fun.



Rich

Looking good will have to check your site this weekend for it if you release it.

Thanks! And here's one more taken tonight, just checking some things. This is that same scenario where the two AI trains run the route and I'm just flying about taking pictures. I caught an issue which showed me you don't want to get these destination markers too close together. Fixed. - Rich

What I am beginning to like about RS is the extra detail I cxan get in my models. I am even beginning to enjoy modelling the 3D cab!!!!!

Dick

NB All the models in this picture are beta!!!

Hey Dick, whatcha mean NB all the locomotives in the pic are betas? Looking great fella! - Rich