I received an email yestday that begs the question, what do you do with something like this? The email came to me looking like this:

"I am getting tired of your personal remarks.

You seem to have a personality problem, I became aware of since you e-mailed me about your relations with PIE and some of the TMTS contributors, I have kept in my e-mail archive.

One more peep out of you aimed at me and I shall let the forum read what you said !"

I'm not disclosing the name of the individual just yet but when somebody threatens to expose a dialogue written for the expressed intent of helping him to understand a situation more fully, and then use that as a means to extort behavior, isn't that something like blackmail or extortion? Usually this involves money so I'm not exactly sure where this fits.

The email this person is referring to is at least a couple of months old. This was back when we were getting closer to the reality of what was taking place with tmts. It's not the focus of my post here to dredge up the issues regarding tmts. To me, that is long over. But this person supposes that things in that email to him would damage my reputation (I believe) or maybe I said some things that would make me look bad... or something. I'm not sure what he sees in that email that he sees as damaging. I can't see where anything in the email would do anything like that but you see my point? This guy does make any email we send to each other a potential scoop for the community.

This is old info and it could be taken out of context. I mean, who really wants to talk about what happened back then anyway? Sure it might help explain better what I was saying back then but more importantly, while emails have been posted at one time or another (and believe me this won't be the first time one of my emails have been posted) this is the first time where I have heard of one using an email to encourage behavior.

I'm really unclear as to what to do with this or even how best to handle it and am seeking opinions on from the collective wisdom of the community. I could pretend it didn't happen, but who might be next? And since I run a business with MSTS, I would hate that someone would think this is an effective tool to keep somebody in payware quiet.

And if I could give the example of the worst of my remarks I "unleashed" on this individual (which I'm using because this very short thread was deleted very quickly), this remark is the cause of this man's ire.

My remark:
"You would think so since all the competition is already years old. Can we get this guy a prize for the "most daring to point out the obvious" award?"

That's it. That's all there was to it. The man has inferred in subsequent emails I'm part of some kind of conspiracy that's out to get him, shut him up or something which I'm not.

Please support me and this effort to eliminate this kind of unethical behavior from happening amongsts us and let this guy know blackmail or extortion, whatever this is, will not be tolerated.

I'll be honest and say it's a fragile relationship at times to be a developer and talk openly with users. There are many times where I wish all I did was just release product without the benefit of discussion. Nonsense like this email threat just makes me want to close-up shop or operate steathily where little to no communication takes place between myself and users if only to protect myself from potential embarrassement. This comes across to me as being quite a bit more serious than this guy coming back to me and saying "Oh I didn't mean it, it was just to scare you a little bit..." that kind of thing. It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Rich Garber

Well, there's your "peep". I guess the ball's in his court now. Let him post this alleged "derogatory" email. Then we'll find out who it is.

Actually, the situation is more problematic than that. I have a route which is really close to release and the timing of this maybe that as the route is released this email maybe would be posted which I take is an effort to embarrass me. The point is, it could distract from the route release and I'm seriously thinking about delaying this route release a month or two to put more time between the route release and when this email was written to minimize any collateral damage that could occur. I've seen a hoopla seriously damage the sales effort of one route which was released I hate to see that happen again with my own Cumberland.

Rich

All I can say Rich is you have been one of the kindest people on the board and and payware developer. If I ever had a problem, you addressed it right then and there with kindness and caring for the end user.
It's guy's like you that make me feel like a real person on the boards not just a cyber person. Not just a name, and place to sent there payware to. Heck you even called me on the phone to help me out on one problem and only one other has taken the time of their day to do this.
I would pay no attention to these village idiots. All forums have them and all will continue to do so. People can act very bold through the internet but when it's in person ....Well you know what I'm talking about. This coming from an administer of a very large world wide automotive site. Keep up the great work you do Rich and we'er all here to support you.
Best regards
GNFAN

If the comment you posted from that email is the only thing to apply to this concern, I wouldn't think that this person's attempt at defamation would be very successful, considering your work in the past on Canton and the previews we've all seen of Cumberland.
My guess would be the only folks that would show any favoritism towards this individual would be the Gimme crowd anyway.

I wouldn't be concerned to much about it. It make no diference what you said about anyone in a personal E-Mail as that is between you, the person you E-Mailed and those referenced in the E-Mail. We all know you had some problems with PIE and to me it's between you and them. Not us. I wouldn't let this idiot force you to delay a project. That's exactly what he wants. I say release the route when planned and ignore the idiot.


Richard

While I do not think that anyone that knows Rich would be overly concerned about what this individual might say or print, nor would they let it deter them from getting in line for a copy of Cumberland when it is released, and I by the way am already in line, willing and patiently waiting with tong hanging out, I do feel that there are others that are not acquainted with the unselfishness of Rich or the high quality of his routes that might be deterred by some adverse statements by this individual.

Any time a route is released, it is the first month or so when the largest number of copies are purchased. With this being a payware route, that time is all important and anything that draws people's attention elsewhere can make or brake the release financially. Face it, may people are fickled when it comes to a discretionary purchase and they can just as easily take their money elsewhere. Therefore I feel Rich has every right to be upset about what this person had to say, to in essence try and blackmail or coerce him into doing something else, especially at this point in time.

Whatever happens here we all need to keep a cool head and not let things get out of hand, as they can all to easily do.

Paul

Just for the record, I didn't mean to imply that he shouldn't be upset, I sure would. But I wouldn't let the threat deture me from a planned release. I to am waiting for the route and wil be purchasing it as soon as its released.

Richard

Rich -

Being one of the faithful, I'm hardly an objective source, but it's my belief that you can't worry too much about jokers like this. People who do nasty gossipy things like this generally throw more mud on themselves than their target. He's the one breaking a trust (a personal email), not you.

I have gone through some similar things with my rock band, all sorts of wierd politics and smear campaigns among various "camps" in the local music scene. It's hard not to try to counter when people are talking trash about you, but I've found that the best thing is to not get involved in the argument, and just let your character do the talking. Some people might get fooled, but usually not for long.

And in your case, you've got HUGE storehouse of good character to fall back on! Even on the internet, true colors will shine through in the end.

Besides, you really shouldn't delay Cumberland because I'm really impatient, er, I'm really selfish, er, I'm sure it's best thing for you! Yeah, that's what I mean!

Randy Brown

I will buy Cumberland as soon as it is out and nothing that this guy could post would make any difference to that decision, the route is fantastic and a lot of work has gone into it, and that is all i am interested in.

Rich, I don't think you're going to have any kind of problem with your release date.....besides, putting myself in the eyes of the "mystery man", this is exactly what I'd want you to do too.....So I say, show him who's boss and release it.....he's counting on disrupting you, so don't let him get the better.....

M.P.

Rich,

A couple of things:

Remind him that you consider the email confidential and priviledged and if he publishes it, he will be in violation of it and must face the results of it. If it is the same one I have had problems with, I am surprised he hasn't threatened to sue you for libel yet.

Don't let if faze you. Most will realize that he is just being a putz.

It is important to remember that internet sites such as these are comprised of a very broad community. Posters on here range from children to professional railroad managers to those who may even be mentally ill. It is both a blessing, because it makes us all equals, and a curse in that we often make mistakes assuming all others on here come from the same social group as we do.

The anonymity that the internet provides robs us of the normal social clues we can use to judge the other people we encounter. Obviously, if I am talking to a child, I'll take their comments as those from a child and adjust my responses accordingly. On the internet, however, I may not realize that user ID XXXX is, in fact, a 14 year old. The only thing I know about them is from the text they post and, maybe, details from a profile.

If a wild eyed crazy person on the street shouts something at me, I don't take it personally, but I place it in the context of the speaker. But, on the internet, we don't have that ability, so we often get overly defensive at the comments made by others.

That we assign a certain amount of credibility to a person's comments, or being judgmental, based on their appearance isn't always a good thing, but it does give us a protective filter.

At its best, it makes us open minded, but being open minded also makes us vulnerable if attacked.

In other words, having everybody lighten up is a good thing.

Rich,

Don't worry too much about this. People in general here are familiar with the outstanding quality of your work, and I suspect that a few additional people may be inclined to buy Cumberland BECAUSE of this fool's behavior. I'll buy it myself in any case because of what I've seen of it so far, and my long experience with Canton (plus East Metro and Ohio Rail.)

In any case, the old quote, "Even paranoids can have enemies," can also be matched by my own saying, "But sometimes they're just paranoid," and this guy sounds like one of the latter.

Best wishes,

Nick

Rich,

Your friends here will stand by you and support you. I'm sure that you have a lot more credibility in the train-sim community than your would-be accuser.

You've taken an unpopular stance a couple of times, but time has proven you to be a seer.

Don't sweat it...

It appears the overwhelming support shall win out in the end. As has been mentioned in every post above don't worry about it one bit.

If the fella chooses to go to the public so be it, nothing will stop that now regardless of your actions today, tomorrow or next week, it will happen sooner or later based on the message you received.

If this individual is bent on trying to shame you in some way let it happen now and allow that person to perform a personal suicide right here in these very forums. It will serve only one purpose and that is to make him (big assumption on gender) appear to be nothing more than the proverbial "Village Idiot."

Rich don't hold anything back, your buying public awaits.

"I've seen a hoopla seriously damage the sales effort of one route which was released.."

And my little V Scale Creations entity and its A&O Sub were the victims of the infamous Surfliner flap. Unfortunately concurrent with my release of the A&O, all that crap started about Surfliner... and because of the server traffic my server crashed and crashed and crashed. Plus, my efforts to address the server issues and gamely try to promote the new route kept getting buried and ignored under the avalanche of bickering and fighting over Surfliner. The A&O's critical opening days were ruined... and it has never fully recovered.

Rich:

Do what is best for your sales. That's what pays the bills and feeds the family, and ultimately, will keep you in the route building business.

Your friend,

Andre Ming

Rich,

If this fool thinks he can besmirch your impecable reputation, he is only kidding himself. In our eyes, you have proven yourself over and over. Should this sick puppy post anything derogatory, anywhere in the train sim community, you can be assured that the rest of us will make certain the truth is known.

Bill

The internet is indeed a very special animal. It takes me awhile to build trust and friendships between people to the point where I feel I can freely discuss issues and answer questions asked "off line" when I have information first hand that is not common knowledge. It works the other way as well. I have been provided with answers to questions I have posed off line and I know it is only because I have built up a degree of trust in a given community that I have not broken by passing on such information when requested not to. This is not a problem limited in scope to the train sim community. It exists in many other "communities" in which I am active: AMC (cars), buses, YES (the music group) and VW, to mention a few. When someone betrays your trust by repeating information it is a natural reaction to first be a bit hurt, then somewhat angry, but ultimately it becomes a little harder to form trusting relationships with others. It also makes it a bit more difficult to believe much of what that person posts in the future, or at least makes me examine his information with a finer eye, so to speak. But, as in this case, when someone threatens you by exposing you for what you have communicated in private.... well there is just no excuse for that, and I fully appreciate your feelings in this matter, Rich.

I am sure your reputation for honesty and caring speaks volumes in this community, Rich. You are one of the honorable ones! It is indeed sad that someone has stooped to this level. I really don't think that if this individual does publicly reprint your confidential email, it will affect what most others think of you (most importantly), or will affect the sale of your soon to be released route, nor future products. I know that I, along with many others, have money in hand, eagerly awaiting the release of any and all of your products.

Rich,

Your honest and strong appraisals, both for and against various products and approaches, makes you a "lightning rod". Add to that your outstanding development skills and you are more than a threat to the unskilled and the not-so-confident. Their only leverage is threat and extortion.

Business-wise, I would delay the release and let the air clear, if such an outcome can be attained. Bad press and rumor never encourages sales--especially amongst the faint-hearted.

You will always have my business, though, come what may. When I want a good evening of operation, I pull up Canton and its children--stunning environments and no crashes! That can not be said about many of the routes around MSTS--payware or freeware .

Stick to your guns! You are a caring, knowledgeable and innovative contributor to the community!

Dave

Rich, In my job I am, from time to time, threatened with complaints to higher authority. Not, I hasten to add, because of any actual justification for the complaints, but simply because it is often the only option that is left open to an individual that suddenly realises he is the wrong side of the law, and it is going to cost that person a lot of money.

Threatened complaints go with the territory and the policy following such a threat is to pre-empt any further action , simply by making the higher authorities aware, in advance, that a threat has been made, and provide full details of what is at issue, including copies of any correspondence (which would, of course, include emails).

The person is always informed that this action has been taken, and it never fails, this "making public" or as public as confidentiality allows. The threat ceases to be an option.

So my advice is to make the text of your email public property, suitably anonymised to protect the individual's identity.

This gives you the opportunity to explain what is behind any points that you feel need expanding, and also to explain what this person mailed to give rise to your comments in the first place. This person will then be forced either to go public themselves in a disadvantaged position (something I suspect they are probably not keen to do), or simply drop the issue.

The advantage to you is it gets the matter out in the open and over and done with. Otherwise, it will remain there as something you might have to address at a later date, when it is not as convenient to you. The object is to maintain control of the situation - this allows you to decide when it is the best time to release the route, with confidence that there are not going to be any issues to mar its appearance.

In the meantime, you also take the opportunity for additional publicity for the route. Your simming public out here will still be waiting to buy (me included ), but will simply be whipped up into a greater frenzy .

In the end Rich, the object is to get control, and do so in such a way as ensures there is no possibility of that control being lost - your ability to make a "public/not public" decision is your strength, along with being able to decide exactly when to release the route.

All the best Rich

Rod

Rich,

The way I see it is like the whole SLI/UP issue. SLI had a good reputation with good products and a strong following, then they go and break the law by releasing UP products without a license, and as payware to boot, profiting off of the illegal use of UP marks. Now, I myself was miffed, as we all should have been, UP's greed or not, because SLI did break copyright and trademark laws, but look at the vast majority of the community that came to SLI's defense and bad-mouthed the "big, bad UP", and it boosted sales right before they removed the UP sets.

Different situation with you and the other party, but I'm sure it will result in the same outcome. You have asuch a strong backing in the community, and even without your great personality and help towards others, your products speak for themselves. I have a feeling that if and when this all becomes public, it will blow up in the other person's face and backfire. People that know you and love your products will get the Cunberland route, people that don't have Canton but are intrigued by the new route (like myself) will purchase it, and the controversy will probably generate a few more sales just because of the "hype".

You are the only one that can make the decision, but I, like alot of the other guys in this thread, say release it on schedule. As a CSX and predecessor fan, an L&N route with the detail that you've put into the Cumberland route is a must have, and will probably spark me to purchase the whole Canton-Suddenly-Thompson package as well, finally. Don't be deterred by stupid people with big egos, stupid agendas and stupid motives.

Rich, well as you can see there are many ideas on how to deal with this, i tend to agree with august1929, as for the release of cumberland, that in the end is up to you. From what you can see in this thread there are many, many people here to stand by you, count me as one of them. what ever you decide to do we will be here to support you. Your Faith will see You through. What ever you decide, when you do release cumberland, count on me for a copy, Best of luck! Rick

Rich, don't let this fool ruin your interest in MSTS payware route building. You know we are all behind you 100%. Unfortunately some people act like (deleted): just to try and ruin it for everyone else, just like the idiot who keeps uploading the virus at MLT downloads. It makes you want to put them in stock cars and send them back to the (deleted) Circus (no offense to anyone who works in a Circus ). It's like Bush, said after 911 don't let the terrorist control the way you run your day to day life because if you do that only gives them more encouragement to do something else if we pay little attention to them maybe they will get discouraged and give up once they see they cannot rule the way we live or lives. Don't let this person control the way you do your business because of fear of being made into a fool.

these are the only route I use in MSTS and ever want besides Cumberland.

Canton

L&PS

Ohio Rails

East Metro

SweetHoven that little payware port RR.

Best of Luck!

Robert
Pacific Northwest Virtual Engineering Works.

Edit: While we appreciate your comments and thoughts, and you have every right to be upset, please do not use profanity or the comment will be removed - mod.

Thanks everybody and I hope others continue to send this strong message that this issue, like some others, are important enough to make a stink over. This was very awkward to bring up and I really hate that my email which was intended to help somebody would come back and be used as some kind of an attempt at blackmail. This particular person, and Kevin will tell you, only responds to public pressure. The guy out of the blue sends me this threatening email and then blocks me from sending him subsequent emails. How else to deal with somebody like this (rhetorical question). Also makes me wonder what kind of an idiot I must be for ever sending him an email like this in the first place. But I had no idea he would stoop to this low level. This email was sent months ago!

I just like to say thanks and show my appreciation for your courage to speak out against his type of behavior. Like I said earlier, I don't feel the email is embarrassing towards me. Not at all. But even still, there's simply no point that I can see to create a fury, if that would even happen, over issues and a time that is no longer relevant. I really have not a clue what the guy sees as embarrassing for me in that email, but, it was an email and while people have published my private correspondence before I still feel more comfortable knowing that private stuff stays private.

In lieu of this heavy and positive response, of course I will continue to release the route as soon as it is finished. Since Kevin easily figured who this guy is, somebody needs to make sure this guy is aware of this thread if only for the good of the community that he never even thinks to use a private email this way.

Thanks again everybody!

Rich Garber

Rich, Sorry if I want overboard alittle on my post won't happen again.

Have a GoodDay

Guess I get trainwashing for a day for posting like that.

Wasn't me who edited your post. I'm not a moderator here, Paul or Joe do the moderating. - Rich

Never said it was. I was thinking being it is your part of the board maybe you hit the alerter on it for the benefit of all who read this.

No big deal.

Give me his address Rich, I'll pay him a visit

I think by now its evident who is on your side, I say let the chap play his game and in the end you will prevail

Oh, by the way, when can we expect the route.

Robert,

I was the one that altered your post. Just took out some words that many have come to use these days without realizing that they are not proper language for civilized people to use in public. It has over the past few years become just a regular part of almost everyone's everyday vocabulary without thinking about their real origins. We all need to think about what we say from time to time and I am as guilty of this as the next person, but it is still not language that should be used in polite company.

Paul

Having followed the thread so far I just had to jump in (with both feet and head first) to back you up Rich.

A lot of sense has been written here about the dangers of commenting in a forum like this. Our main instrument of communication, our face, can't be seen. That is why I tend to use smilies I am sure my comments grate with some at times. Being called the mad Englishman once

To threaten to reveal private information to attack a person is NOT the action of a gentleman. It is possible to be gentle and a man. The one many of us claim to follow was. Mild but with the strength of steel.

So how to treat this bully? Not to give in to his threats for certain.

Dick

I saw the post that supposedly was so bad ( before it was deleted ). I don't know why this post set this off. I have seen this individual "criticized" much more severely in other threads. This one I don't understand. Of course I often fail to understand this individual, though I try very hard to be nice to him. It will be harder in the future because of this.

I'll join in and say don't let this person get under your skin...thats what they want. The fact they've been holding on to this email and stewing over it for months and choose now to threaten can only be to hit you where they think it hurts....your pocketbook. Based on what I've seen over the years thats important but not nearly as much so as your reputation. Anyone who frequents the forums knows the type of man you are and this won't change that. One thing I respect about you (and Kevarc for that matter ) is you tend to say it like it is. Some individuals can't handle that but most people are mature enough to understand what your saying.

Rich;
Please send me this fellows address as our little town lost ours after Katrina. We are in bad need of a village idiot and no takers.

Hello Richard, I have not been active in a while, due to health reasons, but I am feeling better, and will become active again soon. In regards to the email you received, I am quite sure that all of us are 100% behind you. I know that you can count me in. You have helped all of us, in many ways, and you are to be applauded for sharing your progress in all your projects, and welcoming any imputs we may have. It is a refreshing way to approach a new project, and the total effort that you put into a new Route, etc. is to be highly commended. All of your past labors have been well appreciated, and we have all benefitted from the results of your work. My personal feelings about this matter, is this Gentleman should get a life for himself. To be sitting in his dark dungeon, pecking away at his keyboard, spilling out his hatred to others, is very sad indeed. Especially to someone, like yourself. If he is that shallow, he should reexamine his own concious, and go his own way, and live out his miserable life. I say to that Gentleman. You are treading on thin ice, with your empty threats, and there are laws in this great land of ours, that do not take blackmail, threats, and character assassination lightly. So take heed, and leave our good friend Richard ALONE. That said, Please do not change Richard. We value you as a fellow member, and a good friend to all of us, and please keep up the outstanding work you are doing, and yes we look forward to your progress reports, and previews. It makes us feel like we are part of your wonderful projects, and you are appreciated, and to the creep that is bothering you, get lost, and find a cave to live in, or better yet change your ways toward mankind, as there are already too many of your hate seeking type around this world. Enough said. Take care Richard, as you are surrounded by your friends. Sincerely, Putnam Harry De.

Rich,
don't let the fool get you down or stop your work. [ have passport will travel if he doesn't behave] have a great day!

Rich and all....I have been away from train simming for a little over a year and have not kept up with all the goings on....but after reading Rich's initial post and some of the following comments, all I can say is....just consider the source and forget it. I'm 83 now and I learned a long time ago that there are folks that exist in this world who are just natural born trouble makers. Like the proverbial duck's back....just let the water roll off. Rich, you have contributed far too much to this hobby to be concerned with one little pipsqueak.

Keep 'em rolling...
Jesse

Hey Rich,

The heck with this Bozo....

Do your thing and let the chips fall where they will....

Remember no matter what he says he can't cook and eat you because it's against the law!

I just love the immature types that try to intimidate you from the anonymity of the Internet.....

Don't sweat the small people!

As we used to say in the Navy: "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."

Cheers!
Marc

ROFLMAO!

I heard that!

Although not in a good many years....

Especially since my last mess-cooking tour in 1964....

Rich,

Although I have been a train simmer from very early on, I think you're aware that I rarely post. But there are times when... Sigh!

First, to echo everybody else, I have your products and fantastic they are! I eagerly await the release of Cumberland. I will be pounding on your virtual front door for a copy.

Rich, addressing a comment in your opening post, a bit of research will show that money does not have to be involved, merely something of value, in this case your silence. (Although if you really look at this situation, money is definitely involved.)

As one source puts it: Blackmail is the threat to release somewhat true, usually embarassing information if not paid to withhold it. It's not the release of the information that is breaking the law, but the demand for something of value (e.g., money or your silence) that is the crime. (Emphasis added is mine.)

Personal opinion, let him bluster! All of us are on your side.

G. Davis (PaleoGEO)

I will buy your routes just because. Just because I have observed you to be an open, honest and hard working businessman. Your ethical status remains untainted no matter what this guy might say. And, you make good stuff that is fun to use. Looking forward to your new route.