All Aboard, Where are they now? Options

[rgarber]

Remember us? Of course you do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I thought I take a minute or two to explain what plans are for the future of All Aboard.

*tapping foot, staring at the walls, looking away*

That's about it so far. Unfortunately after the Ohio Rail Upgrade I started playing the waiting game for the new sim thinking it would be out, was it May I think? It didn't come. So now they say it's November. I just don't know what to do to be frank. In the mean time I have been working on that "possible" music career I talked about last year and it's coming along. Slowly... very slowly.

In my mind Kuju will deliver a decent product. I'm sure you've seen by now Marc has raises some serious issues with Kuju if folks like us can even do add-ons for KRS, we just don't know and they haven't been forthright to explain much about what they intend. So it's all a waiting game.

I know folks are saying to keep plodding along with msts and that could happen if the KRS bombs out. But until it comes out, it's hard to say.

So I wrote to say I haven't much to say but at least I said it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Just in case you was wondering... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Rich Garber

[wacampbell]

And I would say the give-it-away-for-free route builders are in the same boat. I find it tough to embark on a major project when a new sim could come along any time and divert my interest. I hate to start something I can't finish ... and with a four year cycle time on my route projects, even with the notorious software release delays there's a good chance there'll be something new before I'm done.

Wayne

[Hawk]

I'm having a bit of difficulty convincing myself to finish up the W&A route. Not that I have any interest in the new sims coming out but that I fear the lack of interest in this old model when the new sims are released.
Personally I won't have anything to do with KRS and I have my suspicion that MSTS X will require Vista which I refuse to downgrade to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[dcarleton]

I'm having a bit of difficulty convincing myself to finish up the W&A route. Not that I have any interest in the new sims coming out but that I fear the lack of interest in this old model when the new sims are released.
Personally I won't have anything to do with KRS and I have my suspicion that MSTS X will require Vista which I refuse to downgrade to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I'm with you on that. I'll be with this old sim for as long as there are top quality products to run on it, and if the add-ons go away there is no guarantee that I'll follow along to some new sim. I'm not going to buy new hardware, operating system, etc. just for a sim!

But I'll keep getting add-ons for this one because we have it, it works, and the cost is strictly incremental.

David Carleton

[nbeveridge]

I'm not going to buy new hardware, operating system, etc. just for a sim!

But I'll keep getting add-ons for this one because we have it, it works, and the cost is strictly incremental.

David Carleton

Amen to that!

My hope is that Rich will add on to Cumberland, as was discussed at one time. Already a fantastic route, Cumberland would simply grow to a whopping WOW!!!

[august1929]

Well I don't often stick my two ha'penworth (two dimes?) in on this type of subject - I figure my needs are simple compared with those like Rich, and Marc, and Andre and a host of others who have brought us good quality wares over the years and who have some form of reliance on the saleability of what they produce.

I don't have to sell anything that I mod, or change or paint - I have the luxury of being able to do it for my own pleasure - but I do have a lot of time committment in this sim (and a lot of hard drive space (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) which I would be very reluctant to pass over on for the sake of a new sim.

The MSTS advances over the past two years in particular have been staggering. No, the sim isn't as real as it could get - but there again, neither is a model railroad - and I used to get a load of pleasure out of mine, even though the trees were obviously moss on sticks, and the engines used to stick on the switches from time to time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) .

Truth is, if there is a new sim out there, over time more and more people will migrate to it -but, and this is a big but, there are already two major Rail Sims - I have dabbled in Trainz, and there is no doubt that at its best, it can be very realistic - but it is also a resource hogger, and has its drawbacks, like routes being set in one season only. So, I keep with MSTS. The new train sims will doubtless be a more realistic experience, but I also have no doubt that they will both have serious drawbacks (Vista being one - and I ain't heading down that route until forced to).

I personally think there is a lot of life in the old dog yet (MSTS I am referring to, not myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) ) - and I seem to remember its demise was being predicted well over 2 years ago. I am content for the moment, but I fully understand the problems that beset Rich, Marc, Andre etc.

Now, I am off back to the pleasure of my model railroads (and no need for an outsize finger on these to get them going (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ).

Take care all

Rod

[kcjones]

(and no need for an outsize finger on these to get them going (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ).

Obviously you haven't seen my computer and some of my beta models (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

It's when I start throwing them across the room you have to watch out!!!!!!


AND I have found another use for MSTS. It makes a great film set. Wait for the final part of the Ohio Rail Story. I won't tell you what it is going to be. It is all in the air at the moment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Dick

[pnrailway]

Dick,

Watch the impatience there. Computers do make good boat anchors though!!

MSTS was invented after all to test our patience and to be addicting. If we aren't careful it can become an elder's devil's workshop!! I have that problem and have to be very careful.

Your neighbor to the south - Rod - has said it all very well though.

Paul

[jamesphh]

Keep going an the route planned for MSTS. The new sim will probably not be out untill 2009. And will be codes for the masses. There will be many months before anyone will figure out how to make enhancements. If it is Vista only, then I most likely will not buy it. I consider Vista as the most overpriced, usesless OS I have ever seen. It is slower, with no redeeming features. Unless, of course, you are after pretty. Keep going with MSTS! I feel that it will be around for some time.

[dcarleton]

If we aren't careful it can become an elder's devil's workshop!! I have that problem and have to be very careful.

Paul

I don't know. Maybe Einstein was right about sleep being a waste of time?

But I must reiterate the point - It's the constant flow of new add-ons, both free and pay, that keep me on this sim. More than that, most of us are or were Model Railroaders, and we're not the kind that want to see our collections made obsolete. So unless the stuff we already bought can run on the new sim, then we're keeping the current sim. And the manufacturers can keep on selling us stuff for this old sim. I have a hard time believing that they'd would walk away from that.

David Carleton

[pnrailway]

I don't know. Maybe Einstein was right about sleep being a waste of time?

But I must reiterate the point - It's the constant flow of new add-ons, both free and pay, that keep me on this sim. More than that, most of us are or were Model Railroaders, and we're not the kind that want to see our collections made obsolete. So unless the stuff we already bought can run on the new sim, then we're keeping the current sim. And the manufacturers can keep on selling us stuff for this old sim. I have a hard time believing that they'd would walk away from that.

David Carleton

David,

I readily agree. I will see you at the end of the month and we can talk about this further in person.

Paul

[burgerbern]

I am sticking with MSTS for the forseeable future,

i have not spent years getting to the stage we are now when both routes and engines if done by the right skilled people can be awesome, i dio not intend to change that foe a new sim with a few default routes and engines and then wait for ages while people try to figure out how to make content for the new ones, while people invent the tools all over again for the masses to be able to dabble,

and if it means Vista then forget it, i like to be in control of my PC not someone in Redmond, i am not interested in all the media crap that it is burdoned with, i am one of those people to whom a phone is a method of talking to another human being, where if i want to take a picture i use a dedicated camera, not a phone and if i want to watch a film a TV is best and music is played on a music centre or PC

so the point of this ramble is if quality MSTS1 prototypical content is produced i will continue to purchase and support those who are creating it, i personally feel MSTS1 is still going to be around for a long time yet.

[Hawk]

and if it means Vista then forget it, i like to be in control of my PC not someone in Redmond,

Here! Here! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) My sentiments exactly.

[Joe Morris]

I am sticking with MSTS for the forseeable future,

i have not spent years getting to the stage we are now when both routes and engines if done by the right skilled people can be awesome, i dio not intend to change that foe a new sim with a few default routes and engines and then wait for ages while people try to figure out how to make content for the new ones, while people invent the tools all over again for the masses to be able to dabble,

and if it means Vista then forget it, i like to be in control of my PC not someone in Redmond, i am not interested in all the media crap that it is burdoned with, i am one of those people to whom a phone is a method of talking to another human being, where if i want to take a picture i use a dedicated camera, not a phone and if i want to watch a film a TV is best and music is played on a music centre or PC

so the point of this ramble is if quality MSTS1 prototypical content is produced i will continue to purchase and support those who are creating it, i personally feel MSTS1 is still going to be around for a long time yet.

I hope every MSTS payware vendor reads this thread. I am keeping MSTS. Even if I do get one or more of the new sims, this is not like model railroading where I have to give up my HO route because I am building a new N Scale one, and don't have room for both. Eventually I will purchase most of the payware offerings for MSTS, if given the chance. I think that there are others who will also continue to purchase MSTS products. Even if there are no more "new" ones, I would still consider purchasing what is currently available, as long as it is still available for purchase in the future. I wish I was able to just go buy all of them, but finances ( and the "boss" ) don't allow that all at once. I have considered establishing an MSTS "consignment" store so that there would be a purchasing site where a vendor who has "moved on" to a new sim could still offer their MSTS products for sale. I would manage sales and delivery and support for the products, so that the vendors could concentrate on whatever "new" sim they chose for their creations. I would love to hear privately or publicly from vendors about this. I obviously can't start such a "store" without having something available from them. I am sure that many vendors could just keep a MSTS "section", but perhaps they would want to separate MSTS from whatever new sim they were featuring. I also am curious about what potential customers of this type of store think.

[rgarber]

There's a big difference between model railroading and virtual railroading that I believe you guys aren't taking into consideration. Let me say that your libraries were able to get so big only because the unusual phenomena of six years and still ticking has been MSTS's best asset. This doesn't usually happen and I believe it's a trend that after somebody puts out a sim we can all stay loyal to, like the FS people have with FS, you will not likely want to see a sim so stagnant. The difference is the computer and the technology driving it. While the OS is agreeably suspect there's no equivalent in model railroading that things can change and happen so fast like in the computer world. In six years we are seeing routes and rollingstock with better detail and textures but only because it's taken developers so long to overcome the lack of documentation and buggy code. Put the likes of some of the developers we have into a current sim (if the thing works) and the immersion factor will find more msts copies heading for the trash bin than not. You wouldn't stay with the earlier Bachman and Life-like equipment not after the better stuff came along would you? Of course not. The difference is things change even faster in the computer world. So my point is given a better set of circumstances, like a stable sim for one, the fears of dumping older rollingstock and routes will be long forgotten. We have lived on borrow time for a long time with this ole sim. It was nice while it was available but I tell you as a developer it wasn't so nice. I could go into a litany of ills for why msts is incompatible with human survival and continued success. The downside of my optimism is what typically happens in follow-up gaming trends. Usually the sequels don't have the diversity like say the original did. I would have had more hope for KRS had Kuju actually done even a smidgeon of what they said at the beginning. Because they don't talk to us and get our input we're likely to get what they think we need. *sigh* They're so smart ya know. Anyway, to me our best bet is the folks at Aces and not Kuju. But even with that I'll be one of the first to purchase a copy of KRS and I hope it's doable but I'm highly skeptic. They like to keep to themselves and have done absolutely nothing to foster any good feelings between the payware people I know and them. And I also disagree that our current set of payware people is going to keep embracing msts. Maybe short term stuff but nothing that would take months to develop. All this is conditional of course because once again a sim developer has that big ole carrot out there dangling for this coming September or November. Whatever, as if we could count on their predictions based on all the blown ones in the past. If they postpone again I'm sure we'll all enjoy seeing the revolt or the community never take them seriously again. With that said, I hope they do release soon and I hope it's something we can embrace. You can never tell with those guys though.

Rich

[Hawk]

Because they don't talk to us and get our input we're likely to get what they think we need.

Yea, like dynamic ads (hidden name; spyware).
You can embrace it all you want but I won't have anything to do with KRS and most likely MSTS X. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Just my 2 bits. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I can't believe you'd be willing to pay them $2,000.00 just to produce a route. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[rgarber]

I already gave my own reasons for my own skepticisms for KRS. The points of my post is aimed at the future of virtual train simming and not just KRS specifically. Don't put me into defending Kuju when I've said exactly the opposite.

Rich

[Hawk]

Sorry Rich. Didn't mean nuthin' by it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Joe Morris]

I ( and I think others as well ) am going to keep MSTS running even after the new sims are here. All I was saying was that I will, if they are still available, get as many of the MSTS add-ons as I can afford over time. It might make it easier for me if you quit making them, Rich, as I save my pennies to get any Rich Garber add-ons ahead of getting anything else. LOL. Maybe I am in a minority about keeping MSTS running. Of course I still have a working Commodore 64, along with several other early home computers from several different companies.

[laming]

Andre Ming here, the guy from "down below". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In my opinion, Rich is dead-on in all points. As a developer, we have had our legs cut out from under us (again) with all the hooplah about upcoming sim's that are "just around the corner".

What's it been now, the past 3 years plus that we commercial developers have had to contend with an "impending sim"?

Lessee'... MSTS2 (the first MSTS2), Trainz RS 2-thousand whatever, TA threw their hat in the ring and caused ripples, then TMTS, then KRS and now MSTS2 or X or ???.

And the results to date?

MSTS2 tanked, Trainz RS was a bust, TA faded into the sunset, TMTS abandoned the hobby... and what will KRS and MSTS new2/X /?? do? Who knows? All of this represents some serious interference with the economies of trying to run an MSTS1 add-on business.

Each of the above caused significant bumps along the road. And now, dealing with a sim that is about 6 years old and is on borrowed time, ANY talk of an impending sim stifles what market there is, for in our minds we ALL know that the time for MSTS1 is limited.

Like it or not (and I don't like it, but it's da'facts) MSTS is a shrinking market. Yet, in spite of all this, here we are (All Aboard and VSC) still in business and trying to eek out an income (living) with MSTS1.

I "HOPE" to continue producing some add-on content for MSTS1. However, I am accepting the fact that whatever I build hence will need to be for my own personal pleasure primarily, with commercial aspirations secondarily, for commercial viability has been hit, and hit hard for this sim.

Bear in mind though, that I'm the smallest of the successful commercial content creators, so I suspect my sales are notably below the sales figures that Rich is experiencing and thus I do not have as good an overall "feel" for the market as would Rich.

In recap, I still have some desire to build route content for MSTS... but it is definitely tempered by the feeling that I'm wasting my time. Hope I'm wrong, for I've got one route product that needs to get wrapped up and out the door, and another couple route ideas I'd like to explore.

I, for one, can certainly understand what Rich is conveying in this thread.