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#41 tractionjackson

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 12:54 AM

Of the dozen or so different steeplecabs I've made (I've lost count), the SN 651 is the best one yet. But this is about the North Arkanasas Electric Railway. I really like the geology of the area with these exposed rock strata along the line in various places. Along with the many trestles, there are so many good photo opportunities, I rarely run trains from the cab. I always was a train-chaser!

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#42 tractionjackson

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 01:07 AM

651 pulls to a stop in Junction.

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#43 pnrailway

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 12:46 PM

Tim M.,

That you know of, is there any other interurban equipment available anywhere? I am in the process of planning my Piedmont Northern route, set in north central Maryland. It runs generally east to west from Emory Grove to Highfield.

Anyway, in the town of Thurmont, there was an interurban line that ran south to Frederick. The line is no more, but the company still exists today in the form of the Potomac Electric Company. They started selling off the excess electricity they produced and found that they could make more money at that then the interurbans. wink.gif

If I could find some of the proper types of equipment somewhere, I could include this line as well. It ended right next to the Thurmont station right next to the railroad. Any help you could suggest would be greatly appreciated.

Paul

#44 tractionjackson

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 01:16 PM

Paul,

Are you talking about the Potomoc Edison's Hagerstown & Frederick interurban? If so, there are no cars that i know of that fit the bill. However a Brill car in the Train-sim file library may work until one is built. An arch roof in place of the deck roof, tomlinson couplers, and a few other details would make a close facsimilie. I's have to research it more. I'd be willing to do this, but it would have to get in line behind a few other projects already in que.

Tim

#45 pnrailway

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 01:40 PM

Tim,

That is what I am talking about. I learned about the line from a book published on it even though I lived in the area. Problem was, the line was long gone before I ever moved there. My Piedmont Northern uses the old Western Maryland Railway trackage and has been added to by some fictional branches. I thought that the Potomac Edison line would also be a nice addition, even if the time period is off by quite a few years since my railroad is set in 1969.

Always liked the interurban cars and felt that they were great and the box motors were just right for hauling freight with a few cars tucked on behind.

Paul

#46 august1929

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 01:54 PM

Tim, those shots just make your mouth water - please do have a word with Andre - I have never bee a fan of modern electric, but this stuff just "hums" with electricity!

Tremendous screenshots - after my own heart and doing a power of good to the reputation of the sim.

Rod.

#47 laming

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 02:40 PM

Hi All:

This is some mighty impressive work here.

As for redistribution: I haven't given previous thought to an end-user modified route being redistributed. Further, no other payware creator has ever redistributed an end-user modified route. There must be reasons?

My first thinking would be all the EULA's involved. Obviously, all of the work/objects in the North Arkansas are either my own creation, or have been licensed for use on the route. Thus, a modified route using only my objects or objects licensed to me, would fall under a decision that I would ulitimately have to decide.

This would not be the case with an end-user modified StLNA route that uses objects from a variety of sources, including the one doing the modifiying. Multiple EULA's would be involved. Further complicating the matter is the fact that many of the freeware segment are quite anti-payware oriented. I would suspect any such objects used by those with that disposition toward payware would be quite opposed to their objects/textures/whatever appearing in a payware route to be redistributed as an added-value offering for VSC StLNA customers. This alone makes me think that redistributing an end-user modified VSC route would predispose the need for exacting releases and EULA's to protect future VSC interests.

I would be open to discussing the ramifications this brings to the table, Tim. Once I get the A&O Sub finished and released, why don't we discuss this via email?

Andre

#48 pnrailway

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 03:09 PM

As Andre has said, the ramifications of redistributing an end user, (or would it be in this proposed case - intermediate user) modified route are many and become very complex, especially in a society that seems very willing, even eager to place a law suit for the least thing.

Now, I am not insinuating that Andre has anything like this in mind in this case. However there are those out there that would love to jump at the chance.

There is the other possibility though, and this has to do with the batch files previously mentioned. In this case, an individual needs to first of all buy the route, in this case Andre's StL & NA, and then also obtain the bat files and additional scenic items needed, be it by either freeware distribution or by payware, whatever the case may be, that would in essence be an add-on to the route. In that way, by running one of two, or even more, bat files, one could have the original StL & NA or the Interurban version with very little problem, especially since the track data base does not need to be altered, nor do most of the buildings, etc.

I personally feel that, that would be the best way something like that could be done. It is that way I would prefer it, if it is possible.

Paul

#49 zhivago47

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 07:44 PM

Well, obviously the ramifications of distributing something like this are high, however, if you were to do something like Paul has suggested and of course create some kind of distribution and monetary agreement between the two parties, I would think that would be something doable, and the same Eula could be used as long as everything used within the addon remains the property of the original creator. I would think this could all be worked out where no one would have to or even feel like suing over. When let's say MLT does an update to one of its routes it may be that other people are involved in the process of that new creation, and they seem to be able to get by with their Eula's. So as long as the parties involved come to an agreement and everyone else that was involved in the original creation can come to an agreement, and personally, were I involved, I would have no problem with either addition to the route or change to the route, but anyway as I was saying, as long as it is an agreeable thing both in writing and in monetary recovery, then I don't see a problem with doing something like that. Now, you may not want to do that Andre, which is fine, and perhaps Tim or Rod don't want to distribute their work either. They may be doing it for their own pleasure, but whatever the case may be I personally don't feel that this could be anything more than an update to the route itself and therefore if all are in agreement to it's redistribution as an add on, I really don't feel like it would be something that could not be done.
I am sure that someone like Rich or Marc might know a little more about this kind of thing so they might chime in here with their thoughts on the matter.
But personally, I think it is doable. But whether those involved want to do it or not is another matter. Had they come to Andre before making the changes and discussed the matter with him, I am sure it would have been easier to come to an agreement but whatever the case may be, I think it is a doable thing.

I would certainly like and would pay for both of those finished versions. But that is me. I don't know how anyone else feels about the matter. Just my opinion on the situation Andre. I may be all wrong in my thinking but having been around here awhile, and knowing most of the people that took part in helping you out with the original NA route, I think they would agree to something like this.

In any event great work by both gentlemen and it is all because of Andre's great route that this has even come about. What else can I say. To me it is total flattery were it my route. smile.gif wink.gif

#50 tractionjackson

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:59 AM

Andre:
QUOTE
I would be open to discussing the ramifications this brings to the table, Tim. Once I get the A&O Sub finished and released, why don't we discuss this via email?


I would like that. I really had no intention of a public release from the beginning, keeping your copyright interests in mind, and all the complications involved. Instead I intended the route as inspiration for others to build their own,( much like Trackside Photos in Model Railroader were to me when I was a kid). I like the idea of freeware batch files, which would keep the complications to a minimum. Also, all my models are non-commercial TSM-built, which precludes any venture into a commercial market. I have already recieved some personal messages requesting copies, to which I've had to decline in respect to the law, and Andre. ( I couldn't anyway- my CD burner died last month ).

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#51 boundy

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 03:41 AM

Paul;
I got to ride the old H&F as a boy. Gave a whole new meaning to over hill over dale. As Tim said there are no modles for that line but if you visit the traction section at the other place Mesaba #101, #10 and #14 might work or one of the Brill cars. It might be possible to make a bagage compartment with sliding door on one of the brills as the H&F cars were upgaded street cars. A balest motor is avable at the Aussie site. So you might be able to add this. The Mesaba route although set in MN. looks and feels like a eastern line and has steep grades and tight curves with street runing.

#52 boundy

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 03:46 AM

Tim the traction Gru;
You all are worried about old coonskin zaping himself at the water tank, I want to see him turn that mallet on the wye at Slegman Mo. I have managed to put a loco in the creek several times.

#53 scottb613

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 07:01 AM

Ok Tim.... Give it up... Where can I get that - emm -err - prairie ???

Kinda looks like Jon Davis's awesome work...

LOL...

smile.gif

Regards,
Scott

#54 wmghobbs

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 08:07 AM

Andre,
Yes there were electric trolleys in Eureka Springs around 1900. I have at least one still photo of one and have seen film footage of them running. I think I have it scanned. The film was taken by Henry Ford and Thomas Edison during one of their cross-country trips and was from the Library of Congress. I ran across it abut 35 years ago while working on a series of economic education films and unfortunately have no idea whatsoever about how to find the footage again.

Merry Christmas,
(we are having a white Christmas here),
Bill Hobbs

#55 tractionjackson

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 11:13 AM

QUOTE
It might be possible to make a bagage compartment with sliding door on one of the brills as the H&F cars were upgaded street cars.


Very possible. The Brill models are very versatile and are easily adaptable to other styles of streetcars. I've made Pay-As-You-Enter types, and a baggage motor styled after a New Jersey Public Service car I saw in an old Strett Railway Journal. (below) (we're getting a bit far afield here aren't we? wink.gif )

Edit: BTW, the 07 down there, is a narrow-gauge car.

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#56 tractionjackson

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 11:23 AM

QUOTE
Ok Tim.... Give it up... Where can I get that - emm -err - prairie ???

Kinda looks like Jon Davis's awesome work...

LOL...


Scott, there's another driver behind that cylinder. It's a mike wink.gif . And you're right, it's Jon's. It's a beta for the Rayonier/NP Moclips Branch route that Steve Thompson is building. Being one of the model-makers for the route, I've been privelaged to be able to get early pre-production copies of all Jon's rolling stock. All the Rayonier engines will be made available, once the route is released, which might be next year at the rate we're going. And Jon, as you may know, is a very busy guy too, working on his own and others' projects, so, time will tell.

#57 scottb613

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 01:06 PM

Tim,

Great news...

With all you talanted folks working together - I am sure that project it will be a winner !!!

Trying to figure out what to do for my next trick... I really like this 3D Modeling stuff...

Couple of thoughts - since - Bill Hobbs was kind enough to give me permission to use his railroad name - hopefully he won't mind if I paint a couple of more engines with it - and - it is freelance... I was going to do a second Prairie - with smaller drivers - for better hill climbing... You know - like if the SOL aquired the Prairie from some flatland railroad - and - made some mods to better suit them thar hills...

Then - I have plans for two locomotives of interest... One is the first Mikado ever used in the US... The second one is a Mastadon... Since John did a Mikado - I am kinda leaning towards the Mastadon... I think that would be kind of kewl - as I think it would be the largest freight hauler on the NA - even with all that new equipment Jon is putting out... OBTW - Count me in on that pack from day 1...

Oh yeah - I really love thos spark arrestor stacks you guys use...

Regards,
Scott

#58 zhivago47

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Posted 26 December 2004 - 10:59 PM

Scott, I would love to see you do that Mastadon! Also like the Mike that is pictured above that Jon did. I can't tell you how many of his steam engines I already have, but they are many. I am a huge steam fan, so if you make it, I will get it........I think it would be fine on the NA route. Just like the Mikes do. Personally, I even have a couple of Praries that I run on the NA. I figure this and the Ohio Rail are the two best routes thus far for running anything steam. At least in my opinion. I am not into the western rails but do have many of their engines. I am in the process of reskinning those into something else that I won't reveal at the moment. They will be fictional, but I like them thus far.

Anyway, would love to have you do the Mastadon. Sure wish I could do that 3d modeling stuff, but I tried once and just couldn't understand it at all. Not my thing I guess. You build it though, steam wise, any of you, and I will get it, even if I have to pay for it!