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North Arkansas Logo ?


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#1 Guest_Reading_Lines_*

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 08:11 PM

I wonder if someone could help me locate a North Arkansas logo. I have never seen one anywhere.

Thanks for any information unsure.gif

John

#2 laming

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 08:58 PM

During the the short time in was called the St. Louis & North Arkansas (1900-1905), no insignia has been unearthed.

There was one for when it was the Eureka Springs & North Arkansas (1883-1899) and one for the Missouri & North Arkansas (1906-1934), as well as one for the Missouri & Arkansas (1935-1946)... ... but none known for the St.L & NA.

Guess you could make on up?

Andre

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 04:36 PM

Thank you Andre.

I figured as much and that is what prompted my post. I had never noticed a logo on your site or any of the rolling stock submitted. If I were more adept and creative in the artistic field I would take you up on a logo design for STL&NA.

Perhaps someone with those special skills and talents may be willing to volunteer for such a challenge. wink.gif

John

#4 Mike

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 05:23 PM

John, Please do not mis-read this or take it personally because although you advocate "invention" of a logo I have taken the research seriously. Andre, if you're holding out on an StL&NA herald, for heaven's sake man, please cough it up!

I've invested something like 20 hrs. searching for any herald which might have been used by the StL&NA predecessor the Eureka Springs Railway the St. Louis & North Arkansas itself, and the Missouri and North Arkansas which followed it. Zip. Nada. Nothing except the inept rendition of the MNA attached, and that was later.

Use of even a re-worked MNA logo on Andre's route is not prototypical because the MNA takeover didn't occur until 1906, and it remained the MNA until 1934.

Now you might think a few MNA cars would work, but not for me. Remember, it was in MNA ownership the railroad expanded beyond Freeman to Harrison and that is not modeled in Andre's route. I therefore won't make any MNA cars nor will I volunteer to clean up the logo.

Maybe someone else wants to.

Having said that (and I certainly don't mean any disrespect), unless and until some evidence of either a Eureka Springs Railway or a St. Louis & North Arkansas herald surfaces, I am clam happy to see the lettered versions currently available.

You will notice that on one of my repaints, I put the full-stop (period) beneath the smaller font "T" in the abbreviation for "St. Louis" which I believe to be an authentic representation of a probable lettering scheme of the period.

Guesswork. Pure educated guesswork on my part having looked at what other roads in the region were doing at at the same time. It is growingly obvious I am anal about preserving and enhancing the period of Andre's route and not offering add-ons which dilute its purity. What others want to do with it, is their business and I wish them enjoyment and fun.

As for me, I'll not mix apples and oranges.

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#5 Guest_Reading_Lines_*

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 07:20 PM

Mike,

A very interesting story and I admire your passion for authenticity and never ending quest for excellence. I understand completely your feelings with regard to using the correct herard for the STL&NA and I couldn't agree more.

Perhaps my original interest in the NA logo originated after looking high and low throughout the internet to discover there was not a herald anywhere to be found for the STL&NA. Since reading your comments defining the vast changes and reorganizations involved over many years, I can better piece together the hierarchy involved that I never realized.

Now that you have me thinking in other terms, I agree the MNA logo would also be unacceptable here and I certainly would not advocate a counterfeit herald be adopted or modified. I will continue research in my small way to see if I can uncover something that might be considered of value for our purposes.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and some history about of the STL&NA. This now makes our new STL&NA much more special to me.

John

#6 laming

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 08:01 PM

> Andre, if you're holding out on an StL&NA herald, for heaven's sake
> man, please cough it up!

Nope. No hold out. My resources have very little to say about the brief St.LN&A corporate structure that was formed to push the construction southeast.

Even the known logos of other corporate structures in the life of the railroad are not documented as to how they were used. To further obfiscate the issue, those logos found seemed to have variations. For example, note that I have yet another variation of the logo you posted, yet, neither is what actually appeared on the illustrated example of the 1912 boxcar order.

Also note I've included a logo for the ESRwy, though again, it is not known how this logo was used. Doubtful it would have been used on equipment. I'm inclined to think it was used on corporate stationery.

So, researching an obscure line in a region with scant historical photographic evidence is a lesson in ulcers and euphoria. smile.gif

Andre

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#7 Mike

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 07:50 AM

Well now. Thanks to you John, and to you Andre. Loved that "a lesson in ulcers and euphoria." After a while I felt I was really chasing my tail.

I'm inclined to believe that "Road to Health" logo was indeed a Herald for a short time.

My hunch is based on the knowledge that Eureka Springs was seen as something of a Midwestern health spa, so much so, the Frisco bought the Crescent Hotel in Eureka and managed it for a short time hoping to capitalize on all the passenger traffic seeking Eureka's version of the fountain of youth.

As I've posted elsewhere, when word began to spread there was no "healing" in the water, passengers quit coming and Frisco sold the hotel.

I'll work in Photoshop at cleaning up that logo and personally wouldn't hesitate applying it to passenger cars of the period.

#8 Mike

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 06:20 AM

This is a .gif with transparency. If you want it, right-click "Save Picture As" and then give it a name that makes sense (this board added the cryptic name, not me). It was called ESAR.gif when I attached it. wink.gif

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#9 pnrailway

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 07:22 AM

Looks real good Mike!! rolleyes.gif

#10 Guest_Reading_Lines_*

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 09:55 AM

Great job Mike! This is the best effort up to now. smile.gif

John

#11 Mike

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 10:40 AM

Thanks, Fellas. Applause is infectious, so I tackled something a bit more challenging.

I used the graphic on the boxcar, corrected the perspective, and used it as a pattern for some Photoshop magic.

Not exactly perfect, but scaled down and applied to a boxcar, it'd work. It's a wee period stretch, but what the heck . . . after thinking about it, I'm game to mix things up a just a little bit. wink.gif

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#12 jbt1024

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 11:58 AM

Mike if you don't mind, I am using that for a box car^^^ I am just putting it on there and it is throught wink.gif

#13 Mike

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 12:37 PM

QUOTE(jbt1024 @ Jul 14 2004, 01:58 PM)
Mike if you don't mind, I am using that for a box car^^^ I am just putting it on there and it is throught wink.gif

If you use one, use this transparent .gif. You'll have better results. tongue.gif

Right-click, "Save Picture As" and you know the rest.

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#14 jbt1024

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 01:05 PM

Thanks Mike, and Do you know where everybody is???

Mike you doin any rolling stock or anything, just being nosey rolleyes.gif

#15 Mike

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 01:27 PM

Just now uploaded the new boxcar with my hacked logo. That's all I've got happening although I may revise that coach and baggage car with the logo I made.

#16 laming

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 01:32 PM

That's some pretty niffty work, there Mike. What program did you use to make that into a transparent gif?

jbt: Alas, many of us older types have to carve out a living along with our MSTS interests... so... occassionally there's a bit of a lull in posting activity. Forums are cyclic. Fear not. It will pick up again.

Andre

#17 Mike

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 01:40 PM

QUOTE(laming @ Jul 14 2004, 03:32 PM)
That's some pretty niffty work, there Mike. What program did you use to make that into a transparent gif?

Thank you Andre. It looks better on the boxcar!

All work done in PhotoshopCS. smile.gif