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#1 laming

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 09:48 PM

Wow! Lots of neat things happening today at the church I pastor.

Tonight we had a Freedom Celebration Service, followed by grilled brats and hot dogs, home made ice cream, (all sorts of fattening stuff)... then at dusk the fireworks began and was continual until 10:30 PM!

Tired.

Thus, not much MSTS progress to share.

NORTH ARKANSAS:

Thanks for all the efforts by several of you for really taking off with the North Arkansas. I'm so glad you are enjoying the route!

Special thanks goes to Mike Aspey for sharing his creations with all of us. They truly enhance the North Arkansas and no doubt improve the immersion factor even more.


LEHIGH & NEW ENGLAND:

Not much has been accomplished today (see above!). BUT... what I DO have is BIG. I have some very exciting things in the final detail stages, here's some of it:

* I have consigned the huge Paulins Kill arch viaduct, and the builder will be starting on it as soon as I can get the info to him. (Which should happen within the next couple days or so.)

* I'm in the final stages of hammering out the details of consigning CUSTOM equipment to be CREATED for the LNE. This will mean state-of-the-art Alco's, sounds, cabeese, etc! If all goes well, their ENTIRE FA1/FB1 roster will be represented! Can't get much more real than that!

So, even though I didn't get much done in RE or TSM... things are moving forward!

Well, that's all for now!

Andre

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 05:53 AM

Hey--what happened to the KC&G?? Ohh well--guess Ill be running another New England route next huh??
No doubt whatever you attempt, it will be worth the purchase!!

#3 laming

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 11:59 AM

Hi'ya Jim!

Lessee', you done said:

"Hey--what happened to the KC&G??"

That is a very appropriate question, and deserves an appropriate explanation. This will be a novel, so pull up a chair and read a spell. biggrin.gif

When I was a model railroader, at times I would use freelancing to gain things I couldn't have in model railroading. That is, I never had enough space to do a prototype justice, and regardless of how hard I tried, the compressed distances looked hokey to me. Thus, I could create a freelanced theme, adhere to prototype practices, and the freelanced theme would become its own prototype. Worked great. Had a lot of fun with it.

Then I became a V scaler. I could FINALLY build prototype routes WITHOUT space compression.

BUT, something began to dawn on me: Trying to build prototype routes with V scale proved to be a lesson in frustration.

Simply put, the default track system just is not flexible enough to allow reasonable replication of typical prototype track arrangements. I always wound up with scenes I was familiar with in actuality that were "less than satisfying" in MSTS.

Over the course of time, along with some of the prototype based routes I was building in the background, I also built a couple/three freelanced routes. It was cool to be able to take actual terrain and overlay my fictional themes.

Then the licensing issue for prototype railroads began to become more and more of a situation to contend with when its time to distribute a route, both freeware and payware. Thus, several months ago I backed away from some of the obvious prototype routes I considered doing as a commercial endeavor, and reopened the idea of freelanced. The revival of the KC&G theme was the result.

SO, the KC&G reopened, I began to explore that idea. In so doing, I slowly came to realize something about my V scale tastes: I seem to enjoy recreating prototypes more than creating my freelanced stuff in V scale. Don't know why, just do.

There are some excellent freelanced themes available for MSTS. In fact, in terms of total downloads, the most successful of MSTS routes are freelanced by an overwhelming margin. No arguement there from this boy.

BUT... over the course of all the rail I've laid, etc, I can't help but be aware that I seem to enjoy bringing back railroads that are gone THE MOST.

This fact has a new twist: Once released, there seems to be those that take a liking to your route and DELVE into learning about it. This is happening with the North Arkansas and it is VERY gratifying.

Look at it this way: Before I built the North Arkansas, I dare say 99% of you didn't even know it existed.
You knew nothing of the railroad that struggled for decades in the Ozarks, only to fade away into oblivion and rail enthusiast obscurity.

BUT, after releasing it, some of you have become interested in learning more about it, and ALL of you that purchased now know there WAS a North Arkansas, what the terrain looked like, how the rails interacted with its territory, what the towns looked like, and so forth. Further, you even have many "near prototype" scenes to view that the actual railroad crews of the real StLNA saw, as well as contending with some of the obstacles (like Seligman Hill) and nuances that gave the North Arkansas its personality!

In otherwords, the North Arkansas "lives" again, and in a small way I've been responsible for it doing so.

I'm finding THAT more personally rewarding than bringing to life one of my freelanced themes.

Learning the above is the main reason the KC&G was quietly slipped out of the picture over the past couple months.

However, I was still faced with the frustration of trying to replicate prototype trackage. This was re-emphasized early-on when trying to create the Hainesburg Juction scene on the current LNE route.

I just couldn't capture it to my satisfaction. I had to accept way too many compromises.

Why is this so important?

Because it is important to ME.

You must realize that (behind the scenes) I've admired the LNE since the early 80's. Hainesburg Junction was one of those reasons. (Hainesburg Jct is VERY picturesque. Out in the middle of nowhere... yet 3 railroads occupied the scene and two interacted on a oft basis.)

Why not use XTracks? Because XTracks has stiffling restrictions on it in regards to commercial useage. Thus, if I was going to redistribute commercially, default track it had to be. This is why all the commercial routes to date (3DTS, MLT) use default track.

Enter Marc's Scale Rail.

With it going public beta, I decided it was now near enough finished that I could comfortably incorporate it into a route.

Scale Rail is going to revolutionize the commercial route building business in MSTS because Marc understands that commercial endeavors are a primary reason for keeping LIFE in this hobby. Now that the "O boy, this is NEW and its FUN" feeling has slipped from many of the freeware creators, it is falling upon the shoulders of the commercial developer to maintain forward momentum and produce content.

Scale Rail is a much needed tool for us commercial developers with a penchant for prototype routes: We now have a fighting chance to recreate prototype track scenes in amazing likeness. (See the real/MSTS LNE pics I've posted in another thread.) Plus, given Marc's insight into what's good for this hobby, he has created it with the commercial developer in mind, and my Lehigh & New England will be one of the results.

In recap: What happened to the KC&G?

* I slowly discovered I find more personal reward in bringing a fallen prototype back to life.

* I now have the track tool in my hand to do them justice.

Today its the Ozarks... let's go to the Kittaninny Mountains next!

Andre

#4 pnrailway

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 12:37 PM

Andre,

Reading the above post I stand corrected. I had originally thought that your North Arkansas was in the same boat as Rich's Canton, being a fictionalized railroad and that was why I said what I did in the thread I started over there at Allaboard. Please accept my sincere apology. I didn't know it had at one time really existed.

As for the LH&NE that you are in the process of developing, while the North Arkansas is not exactly the type of railroad that sparks my interest, not that it isn't a good route, because it looks excellent from the shots I have seen so far, I just am not overly interested in running trains from that period in railroading's history. Now as for the LH&NE, that is another matter! Here is a railroad that hauled many of the things that interest me. It hauled coal and concrete and stone and through freight, everything my proposed Piedmont Northern hauls for a livelihood. It will diffidently be on my list of must buys when it is finished. I look forward to your progress with bated breath, (I know, there is something fishy about me, oh well). rolleyes.gif laugh.gif biggrin.gif

Paul

#5 mquist

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 01:53 PM

Hey Andre

I was so dazed by the sight of the L&NE logo in your scale rail post that I couldn’t manage a reply. I LOVE the L&NE since becoming acquainted with it looking at the LV1 and LV2 routes which contain a large piece of the LNE. I see from one of your other posts that you are a preacher man so how could you resist a railroad between Bethlehem, Tadmore, and Nazareth. It's probably a good thing you don't do preorders as you now have the hook firmly placed as far as I am concerned. So how much of this route are you going to do - its not a big railroad but Nesquehoning PA to Maybrook NY is still quite a piece of ground not to mention the Cement, Steel, and Zink plants on the branch lines south of Benders Junction which were really the life blood of the L&NE.

My upcoming web site is going to feature the Lehigh Valley railroads and the L&NE will be included.

Hey Guy, meet you at Benders Junction.

Edited too many typos.

#6 laming

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 02:50 PM

Hi Mike:

Seeing as the LV1/2 route has a lot of the west end of the LNE covered (I understand from Benders Jct west), it would be duplication on my part, as well as ill-advised from a commercial standpoint, to tackle that portion.

Instead, my attempt will include Pen Argyl to Maybrook with its many interchanges and shared trackage. This will give great opportunity for interaction with AI from different railroads, as well as much interchange switching enroute (in addition to online industry). From my past interest in the LNE, along with ongoing research, this means interchange with:

Lehigh & Hudson River (L&HR)
Delaware Lackawanna & Western (DL&W
New York Susequehanna & Western (NYSW)
Erie RR
New York Ontario & Western (NYO&W)
New York New Haven & Hartford

Plus, there are some areas where you will see non-interacting AI traffic from the above moving by!

In addition to all this, the LNE shared trackage rights with:

NYSW
Erie
New Haven

This means that not only will you contend with LNE traffic on your way, but may also have to contend with traffic from any/all of the above shared track railroads when on those portions of the route. biggrin.gif

Sounding better and better, ain't it? laugh.gif

For more detailed information about my goals for the LNE, hit the link below and then click link below the LNE herald.

http://www.vscalecre...ns.com/news.htm

Andre

#7 LNE 709

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 03:54 PM

"* I'm in the final stages of hammering out the details of consigning CUSTOM equipment to be CREATED for the LNE. This will mean state-of-the-art Alco's, sounds, cabeese, etc! If all goes well, their ENTIRE FA1/FB1 roster will be represented! Can't get much more real than that!"

ohmy.gif biggrin.gif, Hi Andre since you are modeling the L&NE in the 50's will 706 & 709 have the cigar-band paint scheme? I can't find any photos before 1960 of these units with the cigar-band. Also will the S-2's and RS-3's be included?

Thanks
Jack

#8 laming

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 04:03 PM

"Hi Andre since you are modeling the L&NE in the 50's will 706 & 709 have the cigar-band paint scheme? I can't find any photos before 1960 of these units with the cigar-band."

According to my research the cigar band was a last minute paint scheme just prior to abandonment in October of '61. The FA1 roster that is to be included with the route will all be in the classic and handsome "pinstripe" scheme.

> Also will the S-2's and RS-3's be included?

Maybe. Too early to tell on the S-2. Very likely on the RS. However, the LNE didn't have any RS-3's... they used RS-2's. Of course, I can give you RS'-3's if you'd rather? smile.gif

Also according to research, the RS-2's did on occasion go all the way to Maybrook on BK Turns. Cool, eh? Mainly though, they were used at Pen Argyl and west.

Andre

#9 LNE 709

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 04:18 PM

"The FA1 roster that is to be included with the route will all be in the classic and handsome "pinstripe" scheme."

Thanks for the quick reply, ok all clear then, but did the simplified pinstripe scheme exist before 1960? Again all my photo's are dated in the 60's.

"the LNE didn't have any RS-3's... they used RS-2's. Of course,"

"RS-3's" blush.gif and I call myself a fan of the LNE, should of caught that!

"I can give you RS'-3's if you'd rather?"

Nope RS-2's if you please biggrin.gif .

Jack

#10 laming

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 05:39 PM

The Jackster asked:

> ...but did the simplified pinstripe scheme exist before 1960?
> Again all my photo's are dated in the 60's.

Well, the 709 had an interesting career. Apparently it was involved in a derail at Bath, PA 6/22/59, after which it was painted in a one-off "simplified" stripe scheme: The bow wave pinstripes were no more, a solid bow wave in their place, and no white stripe at the anti-climber or along the top of the nose. THEN, sometime between 7/8/61 and abandonment in October of '61, it received the "Cigar Band" white-stripe-wrapped-around-the-front scheme that a couple units received.

So, it would appear that the pinstripe scheme was the only scheme in evidence throughout the 50's.

> "RS-3's" and I call myself a fan of the LNE, should of caught that!

laugh.gif It happens to the best of us!

Just remember that when I'm building a route/researching a railroad, I eventually learn so much trivia/details about that line that it gets almost gets to be ridiculous! Care to discuss minor track changes in the 50's at Hainesburg Jct, for example? laugh.gif

It just happens.

Andre

#11 zhivago47

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 10:55 PM

Hey Jim, what do you mean, guess you'll be running another New England route. First off, this is not New England. As a New Englander by birth it kind of gets me sometimes when people consider New York or Pennsyslvania or even New Jersey a part of New England......it is not! Nothing personal, by the way, just want to clarify that for those of you from out west or wherever that this is not New England. And by the way, what other "New England" routes are you running because I sure can't find any? Ok Jim, sorry......but us New Englanders get upset about that statement! And nothing against those other states but they are middle atlantic states, I believe they are called.

Andre, you have consigned for the LNE but what about some of the other lines that might play a role in your route? I am a very big fan of the NYSW and I have done some reskins of some of their equipment. I would be very much interested in doing some of the reskins of that RR if interested. I will be very careful in my research of the era. You just give me a date frame to work with and I will see what I can come up with. I will show you some of what I do and if not good enough then fine, but if good then I would like to do some of the reskins of that RR line if possible for your route. At least let's discuss it via email. What do you say. You can find one of my reskins of that line on TS if you want to look at it. Just do a search under my name. I don't just do fictional lines by the way. I have done other things, like the BNSF "Vomit Bonnet". Which no one else seemed to want to touch. Also done some Alabama RR's stuff. What do you say? I would like to contribute in some way to the LNE route you are working on.

I work cheap too.....Free! wink.gif

#12 jbt1024

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Posted 05 July 2004 - 11:02 PM

I love the vomiter, someday I might touch it up and weather it, o sorry Tim enemy, DIRT huh.gif

#13 laming

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 12:07 AM

"...but what about some of the other lines that might play a role in your route?"

At this point, supplied AI motive power will be included for Erie, Lackawanna, NYSW, New Haven, and possibly the NYO&W.

Drivable engines will be supplied for both the LNE and the NYSW.

The supplied activities will also include the player operating NYSW trains.

We gotcha covered Tim, my boy. biggrin.gif

You can find out more at:

http://www.vscalecre...ns.com/news.htm

Scroll down to the LNE logo and click for more info.

biggrin.gif

Andre

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 02:56 AM

Well to me Tim, being a southern hick, anything north of Virginia and east of Ohio is "New England" to me--(I.E.-Yankee country). I know alot of simmers live up in that area, but I've never been there and don't know "jack" about anything up there. I've never even heard of the L&NE before Andre posted his next route info yesterday. I also worded my post after reading (L&NE--Lehigh & New England)

When I wrote "another New England route"--thats a jab at you lucky guys that at least have a route in MSTS close to where you live. I've been waiting patiently for someone to do a Texas route since I bought the sim 3 years ago, but so far--"No Dice yet". I've attempted to try to do a route, but the ole RE is just too finicky and confusing for me. So, I just have to wait and wait some more while all you "Northeasterners" have alot of your favorites done first!!

So, like my post above says--looks like I'll be running another "New England" route when Andre releases it!!

#15 zhivago47

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Posted 06 July 2004 - 10:12 PM

Well Jim, actually I live in Virginia now. And have lived in the south for about 18 years altogether. My job took me there, Mobile, AL; Baton Rouge, LA; Jacksonville, FL; the army took me to Ft. Wolters, Texas and Ft. Hood, Texas (love Texas by the way, especially Ft. Worth). So no offense, I understand. But I was born and raised in Maine, definitely New England. Was just sort of teasing you too by the way. I understand. Have heard it all the time living down here in Dixieland. But I would love to see a real New England route. The L&NE was called that because a lot of traffic came and went into and out of Vermont and Western Mass. as well as Connecticut, which are all NE states. Some went up into New Hampshire and Maine as well, which are NE states. By the way, never call a New Yorker a New Englander.....liable to get a bloody nose. Just like never tell a New Englander that New York is a NE state. Just a thing up there. Sort of like the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankee rivalry....

Well, I am glad and disappointed at the same time Andre. I just want to have a reason for creating some stock for someones route. That is what inspires me to do real and not fictional reskins. Oh well. Looking forward to it anyway. I think you will have another winner on your hands for sure. With all those great railroads for AI or running traffic, I know you will have a winner.