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567 growl!


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#1 Geep30

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 08:39 AM

I know this might be a dumb question to ask, especially since 3DTrains is professional, but I was wondering if the F units and Geeps have that authentic EMD 567 'growl' engine noise?

#2 milepost56

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 03:46 PM

I know that Marc said he was going to release a new sound package that would knock you on your feet, it's best letting him reply for that.

As for now, I ran my brothers Dekosoft CNW units when I was visiting a couple of weeks ago and that will be my next purchase. The engine sound files for the normally aspirated 567 engines are about the best I have heard.
They also have great generator sounds in the back ground which is what I would suspect you refer to as the "growl".

#3 laming

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 04:28 PM

Don't know exactly what you're in reference to on the "growl"... in my mind that word associates to a low-pitched rumble.

To my ears, what was/is so distinctive about a non-turbo 567 is that WONDERFUL Roots blower "whine". I absolutely LOVE that sound. The Roots blower is the whining noise that goes up and down with the RPM of the prime mover.

If THAT'S the sound you're talking about, then I've not heard a sound pack that does it better than Deko's.

Marc's will no doubt be upgraded and sound superb as well, but if you want to enjoy fantastic sounds NOW.... then get over to Dekosoft, buy the pack of your choice, and ALIAS their sounds to your favorite 3DTrains F units and GP7/9's! You won't be disappointed!

Andre Ming

#4 Geep30

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 05:04 PM

Yeah, i guess what i meant was the roots blower noise. I think ill wait for the updated verson of the sounds, hopefully it wont take too long. Those Western Maryland F's are looking pretty tempting!

#5 milepost56

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 06:06 PM

Actually you won't really here the blower noise on the normally aspirated engine, as it merely feeds forced air into the heads of the engine. The whine that you are hearing is from the generator which changes when the rpms increase or decrease.

I spent alot of time in the Proviso Diesel shops and there is nothing like standing next to a geep in run 8 and under full load

#6 laming

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 06:23 PM

Hm Kevin...

That's not what my railroading exposure has indicated that melodious whine heard from a normally aspirated 567, or even a 645.

If it were the generator, you'd also hear the same sound in the turbo charged versions of same. According to being around those types also, I don't hear the same whine.

However, perhaps we're not talking about the same noise.

Anyway... Deko's sounds have that whine I like!

Andre

#7 Gixxer86

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 03:26 PM

There's some ver.1 Erie and EL Geeps skinned and modded by Enocell/Okrasa Ghia that have a killer growl to them.Check out the file library at Train-sim.com.

#8 milepost56

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 07:08 PM

QUOTE(laming @ Jun 29 2004, 06:23 PM)
Hm Kevin...

That's not what my railroading exposure has indicated that melodious whine heard from a normally aspirated 567, or even a 645.

If it were the generator, you'd also hear the same sound in the turbo charged versions of same. According to being around those types also, I don't hear the same whine.

However, perhaps we're not talking about the same noise.

Anyway... Deko's sounds have that whine I like!

Andre

After spending 4 years with the BLE working at the Proviso Engine House for the CNW I think I know what whines, growls, pops and hisses on especially the 567.

We replaced everything from traction motors to ground protection relays. When we would disconnect all the traction motor feeds before load bank testing it was not uncommon to run the engine set without any load at all. Trust me, when there is no load on the generator the whine is almost gone all together. Hook up full load on to the D12 generator and run a load test for 30 minutes and she whines like a baby.

When the 645 was introduced EMD mated the low horsepower engines up to 2000HP which are normally aspirated with DC generators unless specified by the railroad. As the horsepower increased over 2000HP with the use of a turbocharger, the units used the AR-10 alternator and the locomotive became AC/DC. There is very little if any whine with an alternator do to the nature of its design using a rotor and stator.

As for the Roots blower, at is a low compression blower unit that merely pressurizes the air chambers that run thru the side of the engine block and is barely audible over the sounds of the exhaust.

#9 laming

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 08:16 AM

Kevin said:

<snip: difinitive explanation>

Oakie doakie! biggrin.gif


Andre Ming

#10 zhivago47

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 09:44 PM

I wouldn't let that bother me Andre. That's what's nice about being dumb about anything to do with real trains. I don't have to worry about someone with Kevin's background to come back with a definitive explanation of things I say. But then, you have a difinitive background too, so others will feel the same way when you give your definitive explanation about something said. It all comes out in the wash.
Knowing Kevin as I do, I know he wasn't trying to hit on your statement at all. He just has a little more experience in that realm so expressed it. I know he wasn't trying to make anyone look bad or eat their words or anything of the kind. So, your reply wasn't really necessary. He is too nice a guy for that to be required or misunderstood. Trust me on this one.

Am I not right, Kevin?

I think so!

Tim

#11 laming

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 09:49 PM

No problem Tim!

I never worked on'em in the mechanical department... just been around them/run them. I was told by other trainmen that's what that whine was. No biggie.

Andre Ming

#12 Geep30

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 06:08 AM

is EMD567.zip over at train-sim.com an accurate recreation of the real 567?

#13 laming

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 10:31 AM

If that's the sound file I recall (I think I about have them all!), the author used a method of ramping the single sound stream to a higher frequency for increase, then reverses the process for decrease. Though smooth in application within MSTS, the EMD 567 whine is a bit more complex than that: It's intensity varies with RPM.

I still can't help but feel that Deko's is the best 567 sound available at this point. The only shortcoming is that sometimes the sound loop's stumble, and thus you won't get progressive flow in the sound streams. Random occurance, doesn't happen often.

If you're comfortable with aliasing, once the Deko sound pack is acquired, simply alias any engine you want to the Deko file: Instant 567 nirvana.

You can also use the Deko package to create a new sound file for your common.snd folder, and then edit the the horn to use a horn of your choice. Result: Same nice engine sounds, different horns for different engines.

Let the music begin... biggrin.gif

Andre Ming

#14 atsf37l

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 10:56 AM

Andre, do you have a link for the deco sound pack? All is see is turbocharged stuff on their site.......


Herb

#15 laming

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 02:23 PM

Any loco pack that includes their GP38 ought to fill the bill.

Seeing as you like Cajon, might I suggest the UP SuperSet? It's excellent and includes the sounds I've refered to, as that's the pack I bought that originally introduced me to their sounds. I think you'll really enjoy it.

Andre "Luuuuuv 'Dem Diesels Too" Ming

#16 milepost56

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 06:53 PM

Andre, I hope there was no offensive tone to my reply as that was not the intent. When I have the opportunity to post on the things that I have knowledge of I jump at it in hopes that by sharing with everybody here we all have something to gain.

I will also say that I can't agree with you more about Dekosofts EMD sounds as I had spent some time over at my brothers house (SeanK97, also a MSTS nut) and I ran his CNW units from Dekosoft. Chip has byfar in my opinion the best 567 sounds package out there which I think Dan Zollner developed for him.

Respectfully

#17 zhivago47

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 08:20 PM

And by the way, Kevin, I wasn't trying to step on your toes in my reply to Andre. I know you well enough to know that of you so was just letting him know that. Wasn't necessary to apologize for your reply. I simply want my friend to understand each other, that is all. As you are both my good friends just wanted to clear the air so to speak. If I was in the wrong there, please let me know as sometimes I might get carried away with the good samaritan bit. But it is only cause I like you both and didn't want any misunderstandings among you. Which obviously I should have know wouldn't have happened anyway being the gentlemen you both are. So my apologies there. I just like my friend to be friends as well. But then again, we are all friends here. I guess the other site has me jumpy sometimes after being there and listening to the crap that goes on. I never want to see that here, thus my compulsion for jumping in where I am really not needed. My apologies to both of you for that. You certainly are both capable of handling that yourselves. I need to learn to curb my fingers sometimes.

Again, my apologies to both of you! blush.gif

#18 laming

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 08:27 PM

No problems on either count fellers.

You learn something new everyday!

I may be an old dog, but at least I can still learn a new trick or two. laugh.gif

Andre

#19 milepost56

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 05:50 AM

QUOTE(laming @ Jul 2 2004, 08:27 PM)
No problems on either count fellers.

You learn something new everyday!

I may be an old dog, but at least I can still learn a new trick or two. laugh.gif

Andre

Isn' that the truth, now move over so this ol' dog can hop up on the porch too. We can watch Tim chase cars. biggrin.gif

#20 MKT1972

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:27 AM

Actually you are both right and both wrong in a way...EMD two strokes such as the 567 are essentially huge Detroit Diesels (GM owned them too, hence the name Jimmys for them) the generator does indeed cause the whine but it is the blower making it...under no load the motor is able to spool up freely and the blower doesn't emit much noise, under load it begins to make itself more pronounced due to more back presure on the motor...put excess back pressure on a blower and they scream like banshees...my ears constantly ring because of that...and turbos also create a whine although its much more high pitched...the thing directly responsible for the whine or growl is the gearing of the blower and how they are timed...the more agressive the gearing and timing the more pronounced the whine is...I have been around diesels nearly all my life and being the son of a master mechanic has its advantages...If necessary I can get some .wav files of a 6-71 Detroit running under no and full load to demonstrate my point...supercharged Detroits (those sporting turbos as well as blowers) are truly awesome to hear...nothing but the cackle of a 2 stroke diesel. Edit...the reason the whine isn't as prevalent in the supercharged motors is due to the turbo force feeding the blower and virtually eliminating back pressure. Hope this clears some things up a bit.

Stu