Jump to content


Photo

Surfliner AI Sounds


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
19 replies to this topic

#1 wings-n-wheels

wings-n-wheels

    Track Layer

  • Valued Customer
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 27 July 2009 - 11:02 PM

While Mark is looking into the lighting issues on the Surfliners, I wanted to also see if everyone else has noticed that there is no sound of a passing AI train when it is using a standard engine in pull mode.

I exchanged one of mine with the AI engines that came with the set (but is reversed) and used the Flip ( ) line in the consist, and now I can hear it go by.

That's very unusual. I use many standard engines as AI, and as they pass it just plays the normal exterior sounds. I have no clue why it won't play the Surfliners.

By the way Mark - I hope you don't think I'm bitching about your engines... other than the Super Chief I think it's your best work.

Rick

#2 GaryG

GaryG

    Conductor

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 28 July 2009 - 09:03 AM

Hi

If the AI loco has a .sms file with just sound level 0 defined then it would only be heard in an AI consist. With MSTSbin, an AI loco in a player's consist needs to have defined the same sound level as the Player loco (usually sound level 5). I don't have this set so I am guessing a bit at this problem.

A way around it is to use driveable locos only in a Player consist if you're using MSTSbin. With bin's improvements the hit of using non-AI locos doesn't impact playability very much.

GaryG

#3 wings-n-wheels

wings-n-wheels

    Track Layer

  • Valued Customer
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 30 July 2009 - 08:06 AM

QUOTE(GaryG @ Jul 28 2009, 10:44 AM) View Post

Hi

If the AI loco has a .sms file with just sound level 0 defined then it would only be heard in an AI consist. With MSTSbin, an AI loco in a player's consist needs to have defined the same sound level as the Player loco (usually sound level 5). I don't have this set so I am guessing a bit at this problem.

A way around it is to use driveable locos only in a Player consist if you're using MSTSbin. With bin's improvements the hit of using non-AI locos doesn't impact playability very much.

GaryG


I wasn't talking about an AI engine in my consist - I'm talking about non-AI Surfliners in PULL consists.

#4 GaryG

GaryG

    Conductor

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 30 July 2009 - 09:49 AM

Hi

Ok, then check to see if the .eng file for the AI loco you're using is pointing to a .sms file which has a SL0 section defined.

No SL0 section... no sound...

GaryG

#5 HIBALL3985

HIBALL3985

    Stationmaster

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts

Posted 30 July 2009 - 02:49 PM

Rick, if I'm correct your talking about when using a standard consist ( F59PHI leading ) as a traffic train you can't hear it when it passes the player train? Thats what I've experienced. I also get no sound on F59PHI when a Cabcar is leading as a traffic train.

Jim

#6 GaryG

GaryG

    Conductor

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 30 July 2009 - 09:15 PM

Hi Jim

To make analysis easier, it would be nice to know the name of the .eng file and directory it's in that you're having problems with. Without knowing a specific loco we're just guessing.

"standard engine", are you referring to a Surfliner_Amtrak, Surfliner_Coaster, Surfliner_Metrolink loco and if so which one. I don't have Mark's set, just the ones from the unmentionable route but if I can help I will try.

GaryG

#7 HIBALL3985

HIBALL3985

    Stationmaster

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts

Posted 30 July 2009 - 10:29 PM

I think the naming is different from the sets that came in the FPM route. My .eng files are F59PHI_450.eng and F59PHI_450AI.eng etc for all the numbers. I dumped the Metrolink F59PHI's for F59PH's. They all have sound and lights.

#8 GaryG

GaryG

    Conductor

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 31 July 2009 - 09:35 AM

Hi Hiball3985,

One thing to try.

I looked at the engine's sms file, (TRAINSET\Surfliner_Common\Sound\Surfliner_F59PHIEng2.sms) and saw that the SL0 Activation and Deactivation distances were both set to 100. If your view was at a distance, that could account for sounds not heard, try "Distance ( 1000 )" instead of "Distance ( 100 )" for both Distance settings.

It's near the end of the file in the "ScalabilityGroup ( 0" section.

All this is assuming your files are the same as the old non-mentionable set.

GaryG

#9 HIBALL3985

HIBALL3985

    Stationmaster

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts

Posted 31 July 2009 - 07:01 PM

Gary, Sorry for the late reply I just got of a Surfliner from Santa Barbara to Glendale and rode the Great Dome.
We must be talking apples and oranges. My sms file has no scalability O that I can find. I just have 1,3,5 and they are all set at 1000.

Jim

#10 GaryG

GaryG

    Conductor

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 31 July 2009 - 07:44 PM

Hi

Well, I think that explains it (if I'm seeing the whole picture).

Let's see, in a player consist there is "engine" sound as it passes by but if in an AI consist there is no "engine" sound as it passes by.

No scalability group 0 will cause that exact sympthom. If you were to find a loco that does work the way you want in AI mode, you could find its SL0 section, carefully paste just that section to the almost bottom of the file without that group. The almost means it fits between the last ")" and the second last ")" in the existing file. Also, when doing the initial copy, you want from the "ScalabilityGroup ( 0" line to (and including) the second last ")" in the file.

GaryG



#11 HIBALL3985

HIBALL3985

    Stationmaster

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts

Posted 01 August 2009 - 05:53 AM

Gary,
I'll give that a try at some point. This weekend I'm just pressed for time.

To add to the confusion,

If the F59PHI is leading the AI train there is no sound.

If the F59PHI is pushing ( cab car leading) there is sound.

So I don't know if it's me doing something wrong. I need to do some further testing.



Thanks Jim

#12 HIBALL3985

HIBALL3985

    Stationmaster

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts

Posted 01 August 2009 - 08:44 AM

I got it sorted out. I found there is a separate .sms file for the AI engines that only has the SL0 section. I'm old, blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.
So thats why a non AI engine leading in a traffic train can't be heard. I created a consist using an AI engine in the lead to use as a AI traffic train and now have sound. smile.gif

Jim

#13 GaryG

GaryG

    Conductor

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 01 August 2009 - 03:25 PM

Hi Jim

Glad you got it figured out now.

I usually no longer use AI locos for anything, I just make sure there is a SL5 and a SL0 section and then it can be used as a Player loco and an AI loco with no fiddling as long as the sound quantity setting is at maximum. That's of course if it is a driveable loco with the needed cab stuff. If I install a new activity, I usually edit the player consist to use only non-AI locos before I even try the activity.

With the additional capabilities MSTSbin gave us, all my locos follow the throttle if used in a player consist. If you use an AI loco in a player consist you will only get the SL0 sounds and they won't follow the throttle. Also, you can't change over to an AI loco, only a driveable loco

With this capability, although I haven't tested for it yet, you could arrive at San Diego then switch to the other end of the train and drive it back to L.A.

The new Surfliner route is extremely well done, excellent detail level. I haven't travelled the whole route but the original unmentionable version can't come close to matching it; it's like comparing a so-so detailed desert route to a well detailed urbal route. The only thing missing is scalerail ;-)

GaryG

#14 HIBALL3985

HIBALL3985

    Stationmaster

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts

Posted 01 August 2009 - 05:26 PM

Hi Gary,
I hardly use AI loco's either. But since I had about 10 powered drivable consists and I didn't want to mess with the .sms file, I took the easy way out, by creating a AI set to use as a traffic train.

I'm sure you could set up a consist to switch ends and return. But not with the premade consists that come with the train set. They either have a cab car with no cab at one end or a F59PHI AI at the other end. You would need a powered F59PHI and a cab car with a cab. But that would give you two engines in the consist and the physics would be wrong.

The route is awesome. Jeff and everyone that contributed did an excellent job. I never got the FPM version. I've covered the whole route about 15 times now. Made 5 activities. Added a Sprinter and short Sprinter line and platform at Oceanside.

Jim

#15 GaryG

GaryG

    Conductor

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 01 August 2009 - 09:10 PM

Hi Jim

I'm looking at the CabCar_6901.eng file and it's set to contribute very little power, only 70kW and 12kN of force. This is one that did come with the original route so I don't know about the 3dtrains CabCar definition. If you didn't have a "real" powered loco in the consist you wouldn't move very well.

In case you don't know where to look, it's usually placed shortly after the start of the "Engine ( <filename>" part of the .eng file, look for the MaxPower and MaxForce lines.

If the 3dtrains Cabcars are set up in a similar way, you would not be doubling up on the power at all by having a driveable CabCar and driveable loco(s) in the same consist.

GaryG

#16 HIBALL3985

HIBALL3985

    Stationmaster

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts

Posted 02 August 2009 - 06:30 AM

Gary

You are correct. I think the files are the same as the one's that came with FPM. And the AI F59PHI pusher is rated the same as the drivable unit. So it would be possible to make a consist to turn at the end of the line.

Jim

#17 GaryG

GaryG

    Conductor

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 02 August 2009 - 09:38 AM

Hi Jim,

I played last night and uncoupled everything from the Cabcar. Even with the 70kW and 12kN ratings, I was able to drive it; acceleration and top speed were both slow but it was driveable. It did make it up and over the first hump although by the top I was down to 5MPH or so.

GaryG

#18 HIBALL3985

HIBALL3985

    Stationmaster

  • Valued Customer
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts

Posted 03 August 2009 - 06:17 AM

Gary,
I tried that with the cab car just for fun. Then I made a consist with the cab car and a powered loco so it could be turned. Then I made a consist of low level equipment that replicates the set running on the Surfline now. My son and I rode it Saturday so we could ride the dome. If it had F40's it would be just like the good old days of the San Diegan.

Attached File  LOW_LEVEL_SET.JPG   121.61KB   151 downloads


#19 wings-n-wheels

wings-n-wheels

    Track Layer

  • Valued Customer
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 03 August 2009 - 07:57 PM

I appreciate the effort to figure this out, but I'm reading these replies and it's like listening to a conversationin Chinese. I have no clue what you are talking about, or what I need to do to fix it.

The AI consist used the "F59PHI_450 3DTrains_Surfliner" is the lead engine. As it passes by, whether I stick my head out the window, or have it pass under me in an exterior view - it passes by silently. If I substitute F59PHI_450AI.eng for it (which of course is a pusher, so I have to add the Flip ( ) line to the consist) then I hear it just fine.

But I went into Route Riter and used that "Create an AI engine" utility on the F59PHI_450, and it created a #F59PHI_450.eng file that still has no sound. I don't know what to change. This is what I also did to try to get the lights to come on, but that didn't work either. I'm going to go look at that thread now to see if anyone found anything on that yet.

By the way - I have email notifications on here, but I have not gotten any notifications of any of these posts.

Thanks

#20 Bananarama

Bananarama

    The Big Kahuna

  • 3DTrains Admin
  • 8,104 posts

Posted 03 August 2009 - 09:04 PM

QUOTE(wings-n-wheels @ Aug 3 2009, 7:38 PM) View Post
By the way - I have email notifications on here, but I have not gotten any notifications of any of these posts.

Is your email up to date in your profile, and have you checked your SPAM inbox for email from 3dtrains.com?

Cheers!
Marc