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#21 SAR704

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 04:48 PM

QUOTE(rgarber @ Jun 29 2010, 9:18 PM) View Post

This is gotta be out of the Misinformed Guide To Railworks. I don't know where the poster is getting his info from but don't believe any of it. We can do the same thing in Railworks using decals but nobody does because just like in MSTS, covering a route in decals would bloat the route. What's a decal you ask? Just look at some of my steel mill pics in the Railworks thread and the ground images are decals. Mine are low-res and b&w (from GoogleEarth) meant for reference only.

And while the drawing tools aren't perfect, at least Railworks has them. When I was doing MSTS, what I wouldn't have given to have had drawing tools of any kind. And are the Railworks tools as clunky as the poster suggests? No way. Most of the communities agree that if Railworks has or does anything, its visuals. Nah, I'm not out to pick a fight but I couldn't believe the misinformation in that post. Even Marc could've told you the Feather River started out with some 30,000 Mosaic tiles reduced to the number it currently has because it would've been too costly to distribute.

Obviously the poster doesn't know Railworks and while I couldn't care less that he doesn't, there's no use in misinforming the public as such and that's why I posted. It is a very misinforming post.

Rich


Hi Rich

Sorry that you have seen my post so negatively. Whilst I hope my post isn't going to cause the Earth to be swallowed up in 2012, I have nevertheless responded. You clearly have a bit more experience in RW than myself, I'll admit. Therefore, you are in a better position to competently observe where people go wrong, in their perceptions of a program that they still have a lot to learn about. Marc has pointed out rightfully that the internal drawing tools are theoretically a very good idea. But they still have flaws. RSD have had nearly three years to develop this function, but we are still stuck with an awkward internal painting tool all this time after release. You also mention the decals program. I may have emphasised too much on impossibility in my post, when this was actually misleading on my part.

However, you seem to make a point about decals taking up a great deal of space. We're not in 2005 anymore, when Mosaic was rapidly transforming routes into something that looked half realistic, at a severe download size penalty. Why is it that in 2010 with a much newer and capable platform, we still need to resort to roundabout techniques with external programs, in order to achieve the same result as in MSTS, with almost as steep penalties?

Regards
Michael (Just a little known Australian route author, with a second one close to release, and occasional RW user)

#22 rgarber

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:58 PM

I dunno, I'm having to rewrite this response cause your post hit me the wrong way the first time I read it. I can't tell if you're sincerely asking or just that misinformed.

RS.com elected to postpone the improvements to the route editor until they had other parts of the game remedied. I'm not happy about that but it's their call. There's many more people playing the game than are developing for it. Railworks is doing pretty well in the sales department and unlike MSTS, because it was the only game in town, Railworks has competition so the business dynamic is different.

But that sounds like an excuse. My problem with your post is I can't figure how you see something that works as a negative, and nothing at all, as positive. But what gets me is you think the drawing tools in Railworks are that bad. They aren't bad at all. And as for it taking 3 years, how long has it been since MSTS had its own drawing tools?

Take for instance you wrote that you can't draw a circle in Railworks except by drawing squares. Use the circle brush. And if your going to use the excuse that you don't know the program that well, then don't bash the program till your sure it really is that bad.

And you obviously don't get the decal thing at all. I didn't say I use decals for enhancing ground terrain. I said I use it to lay track and roads precisely. If you had looked at the steel mill pics you've would have understood. The decals are removed when I'm finished laying the track and roads. I could use them as well to spot buildings and all, but that's another great thing about decals I don't have time to expound upon. But just like MSTS we put down ground textures only not only do we have a variety to use or choose from, but they can differ by seasons too. Not two seasons (winter and summer) but all four.

And you wrote something about external programs I don't get. I use two 3d modeling programs, a paint program, another program that helps me make tiled textures more effective - what other programs are you talking about? You mean like Redem? It's a dem program, don't you use one too? There are plenty of people who don't use Redem but use the built in Dem feature within Railworks. And I also use RWDecal. It makes decals and places them in literally seconds. So it saves me time from having to make lots of marker files. You think that's a bad thing?

In Railworks you can have as many marker files for any reason you can come up with. And that's great. But with the way we can use decals, I can lay track and roads right on top of the decal which means I don't need to make as many markers. To me that's pretty powerful.

So what other external programs are you talking about? You mean RWTools? I don't often use it.

To me its like I said in my first post. You just don't know Railworks and yet you bash it and mislead people like you know it better than you do. It is misleading. And if that's not a problem for you, well, it is for me. We get people all the time who've listened to the misinformation who regret they took so long to give Railworks a try. They realize it isn't perfect. But neither is MSTS.

And what makes me mad is the implication in your posts that I would be so stupid to jump into a game so flawed and bug ridden. Your finishing up your second route? I did 7. And four more in Railworks too. Add to it the over 900 models I've made and the hundreds of activities and scenarios I've written - I think I humbly have a little idea of what I'm doing.

Rich

#23 SAR704

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 02:12 AM

QUOTE
RS.com elected to postpone the improvements to the route editor until they had other parts of the game remedied. I'm not happy about that but it's their call.


Than you for pointing this out. This explains the lack of refinements to the world editor, and answers the part of my post questioning this reasonably.

I haven't used the decal program. Your post implied that using them all over the route would bloat it. Excuse my ignorance, but what did you mean by this?

QUOTE
And you wrote something about external programs I don't get. I use two 3d modeling programs, a paint program, another program that helps me make tiled textures more effective - what other programs are you talking about? You mean like Redem? It's a dem program, don't you use one too? There are plenty of people who don't use Redem but use the built in Dem feature within Railworks. And I also use RWDecal. It makes decals and places them in literally seconds. So it saves me time from having to make lots of marker files. You think that's a bad thing?


What's this program that relates to tiled textures? Is this something with working around shortcomings with the internal paint tool? This was exactly what my original post queried. Yet your posts makes it seem as though my original post was no less than a completely misleading review about everything related to the program.

QUOTE
And what makes me mad is the implication in your posts that I would be so stupid to jump into a game so flawed and bug ridden.


Where did I suggest you would be dumping RW for MSTS? If you're happy with RW, I have no objections to this.

QUOTE
Your finishing up your second route? I did 7. And four more in Railworks too. Add to it the over 900 models I've made and the hundreds of activities and scenarios I've written - I think I humbly have a little idea of what I'm doing.


I couldn't care if you've done 7 or 30. I don't do route building for quantity.

#24 rgarber

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 05:12 AM

@Michael - I'm not sure what lack of refinements you speak of but the world editor as it is now is quite the cats meow for route building. Like I said before in other posts, my switch to Railworks was done with great skepticism, but since then, I haven't looked back. I'm just not in a patient mood to teach you how Railworks or MSTS works. My perception of your responses is you prefer obstinance to truth and you prefer digs than to showing respect. The questions you're asking in your latest post continue to reveal you don't know Railworks and yet you continue to bash it and cast it negatively every opportunity you think is an opportunity (which instead only reveals your childishness). My point is your ramblings are misinforming. It's not you that I'm concerned for, it's the people you might be influencing.

Oh, and Michael (as a PS), you might want to look back at your posts and see that you brought up how many routes you "almost did" first. And just so you know, I didn't care either.

@Everybody else - The tiling program I wrote about is for my paint program, it doesn't have anything to do with the internal Railworks drawing tools. Regarding actual Railworks use, I don't use or need hardly any external programs. And in regard to decals, see this thread about my New Philadelphia route and you can see what I'm talking how decals can be used for placing track, roads, buildings, just about anything. Speeds up the process of route building tremendously and also allows you to get very accurate in placment. They don't bloat the route as you can discard them very easily with one click of a button. But, decals just don't have to be used as a referencing tool. Like transfers in MSTS you can use decaks in Railworks the same as you use Transfers. Personally, I prefer to use decals for referencing since the drawing tools in Railworks is pretty flexible. Of course the drawing tools could be expanded upon by RS.com (who wouldn't want the additional flexibility), but as they are now, they are an incredibly valuable and versatile feature in Railworks and they give us route builders a tremendous amount of creative potential to give our routes an authentic look.

http://www.3dtrains....showtopic=17214

Rich

#25 Hack

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:35 AM

Guys, let's try and keep the digs and jabs to a minimum. Thanks.

Cheers!
Marc

#26 lides

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 02:10 PM

Just wanted to see if there is still work going on with this route...

#27 brodywyrick

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:29 PM

Definitely count me in for your target audience! I live down in Salinas, just down the coast, and I have been looking for a route to cover at least a little bit of the Coast Line. I heard that there is also a Coast Line route in the works from train-sim.com, and the way I found out was whomever is working on it released the San Luis Obispo station from his/her scenery as a teaser.