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#1 billmoyer

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 07:29 AM

Andre,

I just read a post on another part of this forum, by the "godfather of msts", that your Ozark route is being held captive due to a perception that there isn't enough interest in older equipment to warrent its release.

Let me be the first to say that I am a member of the "family" who enjoys "older" stuff much more than the current power. It may not be as powerful but it has personality!!! cool.gif dry.gif

For what its worth, WP3, godfather's routes, and yours are the only ones I run. Just sitting in a cab on a mainline run puts me to sleep (really). Routes like WP3, Rich's, and yours are what keep me rideing the rails. smile.gif smile.gif

If the rumor is correct, I hope you will reconsider and release Ozark. You have a loyal fan base just waiting for it!!! flowers.gif

Bill

#2 frog3764

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 02:44 PM

Andre - I am also waiting for the ON. In fact, I've been waiting for a long time, and knowing you've been extra busy, I'm still patiently waiting. I prefer the "old time" railroading. Just my two cents worth.

Frog

#3 GreatNortherner

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE(frog3764 @ Jun 19 2008, 1:25 PM)  

Andre - I am also waiting for the ON. In fact, I've been waiting for a long time, and knowing you've been extra busy, I'm still patiently waiting. I prefer the "old time" railroading. Just my two cents worth.

Frog


I can only echo what has been said above. Waiting patiently for this new beautiful route - I really wish for a new place to run the beatiful steamers which Davis Locomotive Works rolled into my roundhouse some time ago.
smile.gif

Cheers!
Michael

#4 laming

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:34 PM

Hi All:

First off, thanks for the words of encouragement concerning the Ozark Northern.

I would have responded sooner but the wife and I have been out of town for a short "mini-vacation". Thursday night we packed up our saddlebags and strapped the luggage bag onto our Harley Deuce and Friday we headed out for the mountains of central and northern Arkansas for a four day tour. Just got back tonight (Monday).

It is no rumor: The Ozark Northern is complete, sans activities.

Unfortunately, the activities are the bottleneck at this point. Mainly, it is a time issue. The railroad I work for, my terminal in particular, is experiencing a boom of business. My regular switching job has gone from routinely getting "early quits" (i.e. work 5-6 hours and get paid for 8) to consistantly working 11-12 hours per day. Instead of working about 30-35 hours per week and getting paid for 40, I am now working 55-60+ hours Mon-Fri. Plus, the Ft. Smith engineers are on a weekend rotation for the Sunday and/or Saturday jobs. This means about every 3rd weekend I am also working at the railroad. To complicate matters, I have to take care of two households: Mine, and my widowed mother's. This means that if I have a free Saturday, it's spent doing yard work either here, there, or trying to fit in both. Sunday's we have church obligations, both AM and PM.

Typically, my week "day" begins at 0530 hrs (5:30 AM), and I don't get back to the house until about 1945 hrs (7:45 PM), somtimes later if I stop and eat at Ft. Smith before I make the trek home.

This means that I have about 1.5 to 2 hours in the evening before its time to start getting ready for bed to start it all over again the next day.

In regards to creating an activitiy: If all goes well, creating one good activity can take two long evenings. (i.e. from about 6 PM to 10 PM). IF I had that sort of time, and barring no complications with activities, it would take 48 evenings to complete 24 activities. As you can see, I don't have that sort of time right now, and I for sure don't have the creative energy/discipline to sit down with the 1-2 evening hours I DO have and work on activities.

Thus, the Ozark Northern is stalled out at this juncture.

I don't really have an answer to this issue right now, so, the Ozark Northern sits on the hard drive.

Yes, I DO have concerns that it would be a poor performer, sales wise, which would hinder activity creation IF I had the time to give it. However, seeing as I don't have the time anyway, this is pretty much moot.

This is perhaps not the answer some of you hoped for, but at least it is a candid and factual answer from the guy that is V Scale Creations: Little ol' Me.

Well.. it's coming up on 10 PM, the mini-vacation is over, so reckon it's time to tend to the before-bed things and head off to get some shut eye... 5:30 AM comes awful early!



#5 nbeveridge

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 04:02 AM

QUOTE(laming @ Jun 23 2008, 8:15 PM)  

Hi All:

First off, thanks for the words of encouragement concerning the Ozark Northern.



It is no rumor: The Ozark Northern is complete, sans activities.

Unfortunately, the activities are the bottleneck at this point. Mainly, it is a time issue.

Thus, the Ozark Northern is stalled out at this juncture.

I don't really have an answer to this issue right now, so, the Ozark Northern sits on the hard drive.

Yes, I DO have concerns that it would be a poor performer, sales wise, which would hinder activity creation IF I had the time to give it. However, seeing as I don't have the time anyway, this is pretty much moot.




Andre,

I believe that there is another option. If you were to make the route available to Steve Davis and his template developers, they could create an Activity Generator template for the route, using the rolling stock you have for the route. Even if these activities are not of the well detailed type that Andre Ming is so famous for, this would at least permit users to operate the route. Then you could release the route without much further effort, and others could once again enjoy your marvelous creativity!

Please let us know what you think.


#6 billmoyer

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 07:25 AM

Andre,

Thanks for the reply!!!!

Many of us can probably understand the work and commitments crunch. Even though I'm retired, the days seem to have fewer spare hours than when I was working and getting paid for it. wacko.gif

Some dust and cobwebs can be removed, just don't put the route in the round file!! You have a fan base that is willing to wait. We know the quality of the completed product (whenever) will be worth it!!!! smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

Bill

#7 jbt1024

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 02:41 PM

Activites? I say let it be tongue.gif People who get the route will more than likely do some anyways, or use the program to make some wink.gif

My 2 lincolns in..

Thrasher

#8 ozace50

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 07:22 PM

Hi Andre, let me add my little bit to the chorus from your fans. biggrin.gif

I am very happy to buy your route with or without the activities. I have bought other routes (from you and others), and I make my decision to buy or not on the quality of the route, not on the activities that might be part of the package. To me the activities are a bonus, not a requirement. Don't get me wrong: your activities for the earlier routes have been great, and I've run many of them. But I've run your routes a lot more times than that, just to run trains in great scenery!

So, even though your feeling might be that you don't want to release a route without good activities to go with it, and I can understand that, I'd be very happy if you could put those feelings on hold this time. flowers.gif flowers.gif flowers.gif smile.gif

(Besides, I have a significant birthday coming up soon, and my wife asked me the other day what I'd like for a present. If you release this route, my problem is solved!!) biggrin.gif

#9 frog3764

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:34 PM

My sentiments are all of the above. I run Explore anyway so I can do what I want, the way I want, and when I want. To me, the activities are just a bonus or option if one wants. I am sure there will be plenty of others creating activities right away. You can always release yours at a later date. Let her go Andre! Just my two pesos worth.

Frog

#10 ruggus

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 04:58 PM

Hi Andre,

I also will be glad to buy the route sans activities. Matter of fact, put me down for two copies.
I love the work and the time period and still get a lot of satisfaction running the St L & NA and the A&O.


Thanks,

Mark

#11 superchevy

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 07:58 PM

Yes Please release the route without the activities.Activities are at the bottom of my list when purchasing a route. I love to drive the route and use activities very little to not at all. Dave

#12 Bananarama

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 08:26 PM

QUOTE(ruggus @ Jun 25 2008, 4:39 PM)  
I also will be glad to buy the route sans activities.

QUOTE(superchevy @ Jun 25 2008, 7:39 PM)  
Activities are at the bottom of my list when purchasing a route.

Considering the amount of time it takes to create a worthwhile activity, and except in the case of Rich Garber who can do it in his sleep (and often does so wink.gif), this is interesting information.

Cheers!
Marc

#13 dcarleton

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:21 PM

QUOTE(Hack @ Jun 25 2008, 11:07 PM)  

Considering the amount of time it takes to create a worthwhile activity, and except in the case of Rich Garber who can do it in his sleep (and often does so wink.gif), this is interesting information.

Cheers!
Marc


Here is a specific example:
On the Feather River route of course I ran the activities supplied. However, there are only a few activites which I have run repeatedly, and these I will often use to try different engines on the player train. (Try Mr. Cowen's Union Pacific 0-6-0 on the Quincy switcher!)

In order of priority for a payware route, the route itself is most important.
Second is the equipment included, especially with a high end route like Feather River.
Third, the activities are important, but see also the comments above!

On top of that, there are excellent activity creators out there who will make add-on activites, even for routes that came with a good selection of activities right out of the box.

A top quality route should be marketable without a library of activites, especially if the equipment included makes the purchase worth while. However, it would probably be best to include an explicit comment on the sales screen that the route comes packaged with "explore only" activites "at the present time".

David Carleton



#14 Christian_S.

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 04:42 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with everything that has already been said. Andre, I would be more than willing to purchase a copy of the route, sans activities. It would be a real shame if us 'train-simmers' were never given the opportunity to appreciate all the blood, sweat and tears you have put into this project thus far!

-Chris

#15 wmghobbs

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 05:00 PM

Let me add my .02 worth since I have already worked with a beta version of this route and with the equipment. I believe this crowd would indeed enjoy the route even without activities.
Also, RS is coming on only slowly since there is no knowledge base out there for building routes or equipment right now. It will still be quite some time before there are US based routes using that sim -- and in particular TOC steam based routes. So Andre, you still should have a decent market for your route.

Bill Hobbs


#16 pnrailway

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 05:17 PM

Andre,

With inflation, here is my nickle. I too would be more then willing to purchase the route with just some "explore" activities included. From the shots you have published in the past, the route, it's scenery, and structures, (with the way you put a route together), automatically puts it in the "Must Have" category.

Paul

PS: Andre, have you hear anything from Jon Davis lately?

#17 august1929

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 11:25 PM

Going to pitch in as well Andre - having seen the route from the inside (albeit on an earlier Beta) I can have absolutely no doubt that it will be a success, even without activities. The scenery is stunning, the whole concept is original (yet again smile.gif ) and with the dedicated engine and stock pack I am certain it will be a winner.

My order of priorities is as above

1. A realistic route (whether prototype or protolanced) and that means structures, settings and atmosphere that makes you believe you really are on a railroad (Andre has succeeded every time on that).

2. A dedicated stock pack - very important for those of us who maybe are not quite as good as we would like to be in matching up stock to eras of railroading. Not such a problem with TOFC routes - but at least you are using the correct engines and wagons etc.

3. Last, definitely, the activities. Andre's (and Rich Garbers) are definitely inspired, but I, for one, rarely run them. What I will do is take a bit of an activity and maybe change it for myself, or use Steve Davis' utilities to help out there.

My only caveat to this is to make certain that there are plenty of paths to choose at the outset, and maybe one simple end to end activity. A lot of people still have difficulty with the AE and fight shy of it.

Other than that - Andre, please don't hold back on it if you have the route up to that stage - activities can follow on...

Take care

Rod

#18 cricetus

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 10:42 PM

For me realistics activities are very important. I like to understand how the real things goes... and in this mind the work of Andre with A&O and SL&NA is the best. smile.gif


#19 neilmilroy

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 02:30 PM

Andre,

I really, really WANT this route. I will very happily pay the full price you planned to ask for the route-with-activities, sans the activities; please give me that opportunity. As eveyone agrees, there will be activities galor from the happy users. You could simply post here any info you wish to impart with respect to the operations you envision. Please release the route soonest.

smile.gif

Sanddome

#20 B32BWH

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 04:29 PM

I feel like i am beating a dead horse as its been said my MANY others....but i too have been looking foward to this route for quite a while, and would not mind even the smallest bit if there were no activities.