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#1 jivagoswami

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 06:36 AM

"In order for you to download your new files, you must first register for the 3DTrains forum."

I did not want to register for the 3DTrains forum. If I'd known this was a requisite step, I might not have made the purchase.

"If you're already registered and have access to the required private areas, then simply log-in to the forum and download your new files from the 'Locomotive & Core Downloads' thread located in the appropriate private forum."

I've registered now. How am I to even begin to guess what is meant by the "appropriate private forum?" choices are:

Announcements
Product Wish LIst
Feedback & Support
General Items
Product Update Information
Dekosoft Trains
Lone Wolf Activitites

The products I'm looking (and have paid) for are:
F-Unit Cab & Sound Core Files
Western Maryland (WM) F-Unit Super Pack
I have run searches and looked everywhere I can think of.

I wrote to Marc several times back on Wednesday, 7/16, and there has been no response at all from him.

I like the products here very much but once something is bought and paid for you'd be within reason to expect to be able to pick up your purchase.

To me ... when it comes to making a purchase here the difficulty (if any) should end when you fork over the dough.

"Thank you very much, Sir, here is your purchase!" That's what I want to see and hear! All this other extra activity is not what I paid for.

Finally, I fully understand that lots of people have no problem with any of this kind of post purchase struggle ... and in fact sometimes escapades like this are enjoyable to some and not at all a struggle for others.

In return any reader of this note may respect the fact that this kind of trip is very alien and unpleasant to a significant number of people too.

It feels unfair to be invited to make a purchase and then, AFTER the purchase to be told essentially, "Now you go find it." Particularly when the finding is not the slightest bit straight forward, and extra previously hidden requirements become apparent.

You want to sell me something but I have to be a "member" in order to take delivery? Fine. Tell me that up front.

I've run searches on this board for the items mentioned above and have come up empty. If anyone knows the actual link to these products mentioned above, please share this with me ... as Marc has not responded and it has been four days.

I hope the passwords I was given still work ... if I ever find thse things. AND if I ever find and secure this rolling stock ... I am certain it will be wonderful.

I understand all the concerns about copy protection but hey, even with this join / password / find if you can scenario, there is STILL absolutely NO protection here against Rip Off.

I don't know what the overall solution is, but penalizing (by causing all these extra changes) customers like me is probably not the best answer.

jivajiva

#2 uli

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 07:33 AM

Hi,

after having registered to the 3dTrains forums, you first have to "log in" to have access to the private forums by entering your user name and your password (see "log in" link at the top of the forums page).
After that, you should see the "F-Units and Geeps" forum in the list of the forums, in addition to the forums that you have named. Enter that forum. Then look for the last of the "sticky" threads on top of the thread list. It is called "Locomotive & Core Downloads". Click on it, and a page will open with number of small pictures. Look for the two files that you want to download. Clicking on the picture will start the download.

I hope I could help. The WM F-units are one of my favourite F-unit sets, I think you will like them!

uli

#3 Big Zee

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 07:46 AM

Jiva,
Let me first start off and say that I apologize for any inconveniences you have experienced. Not being a part of the purchase procedure, I can't help you directly right now, but I do want to point out a few things. Our method of getting you your purchase only changed just recently. I don't know the specifics of the piracy that caused this change to occur, but we had to deviate from our prior method of including links to the setup files, and the passwords, in an e-mail that was sent to you after verification of your purchase was made. Because a direct link was posted on a website, along with the password for that product, we didn't have any control over who downloaded and received a free copy of our product. We did query the users that frequent this forum about taking these measures to protect our products and we had strong support in favor of the method we are using right now. To protect our products you now have to be given access to the forum for the product you purchased. Only then will you be able to see that said forum where you will find 'sticky' threads with the download links available. This gives us control and ensures that only verified customers of our product are allowed into their proper forums. Also, IPs are logged when downloads are made of our products so that if we suspect someone is pirating our product we can pinpoint who it was. So, for the time being, this is how we have chosen to handle this issue, and we understand if some of our customers do not agree with it. We just don't have alternatives at this point in time. Now, you said that you have sent repeat e-mails to Marc Nelson about your purchase. Normally, you should have been given access to the F-Unit/Geep forum within a very short amount of time. Marc is extremely good at giving you that access once you have e-mailed him back (after registering on our forums here) with your forum username and purchase details. I'm not making excuses for him, and I don't know why he has yet to give you the access, but I can say that we are extremely busy right now with another product that is scheduled to release soon. If I had to guess, I would have to say that would be the reason for the tardiness. But, I can tell you what I will do for you. I will contact Marc and either direct him to this thread, or I'll have him check his inbox to see if he missed your e-mail. If you haven't done so already, please e-mail him again at support@3dtrains.com with your forum username and purchase details requesting access to the F-Units/Geep forum. Again, I apologize for the inconveniences.

Kindest regards,
Dan Zollner - 3DTrains

#4 jivagoswami

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 08:58 AM

Jiva,
Let me first start off and say that I apologize for any inconveniences you have experienced.

Thatís nice. smile.gif Iíve become increasingly bothered as more and more time has been spent by me in this pursuit. I'm using large print here not to shout but because it is easier for me to "see." (I am blind ... low vision)


Not being a part of the purchase procedure, I can't help you directly right now, but I do want to point out a few things.


Our method of getting you your purchase only changed just recently. I don't know the specifics of the piracy that caused this change to occur, but we had to deviate from our prior method of including links to the setup files, and the passwords, in an e-mail that was sent to you after verification of your purchase was made.

The previous method was also very much a headache. For those familiar with the process, I guess it was great. For me, there were many items Iíd thought Iíd downloaded which it turns out I hadnít and many I downloaded which I did not have passwords for.

Respectfully, you ďshould notĒ assume your customers know what you know ... there are lots of people who are very much fans without knowing much at all about the differences between a Dash 9 and a GP 9, etc.

Because a direct link was posted on a website, along with the password for that product, we didn't have any control over who downloaded and received a free copy of our product.

Then as a user / subscriber I was subject to very intense (for the price) sorting and monitoring issues.We did query the users that frequent this forum

That would NOT be most of your customers would it? What about those who do not want to become a member of yet another forum? The very people who would object were excluded by your method.
about taking these measures to protect our products and we had strong support in favor of the method we are using right now.

Well OK ... then let potential downloaders know up front what they (we) may be getting into.
To protect our products you now have to be given access to the forum for the product you purchased.

I understand this. Iím listing some problems with the current system.
Only then will you be able to see that said forum where you will find 'sticky' threads with the download links available.

I saw this collection of ďstickyĒ threads. I did not see the products Iíd paid for there.

This gives us control and ensures that only verified customers of our product are allowed into their proper forums. Also, IPs are logged when downloads are made of our products so that if we suspect someone is pirating our product we can pinpoint who it was.

Unless someone is actually deliberately stealing your stuff and determined to hide.

So, for the time being, this is how we have chosen to handle this issue, and we understand if some of our customers do not agree with it.

I understand your reasons. I believe this is the best of a bad bargain at this time. I believe you (your company) would be better acting if potential purchasers were advised up front.

Obscured in all this is the fact that the produt I am looking for (have paid for) is not apparently listed on the page you cited. Now if someone sees the items listed, just tell me where ... it is very likely that Iím simply overlooking.

I have registered, logged on, looked, searched, sent affirmations to Marc and or whatever.

We just don't have alternatives at this point in time.

I understand.


Now, you said that you have sent repeat e-mails to Marc Nelson about your purchase. Normally, you should have been given access to the F-Unit/Geep forum within a very short amount of time. Marc is extremely good at giving you that access once you have e-mailed him back (after registering on our forums here) with your forum username and purchase details. I'm not making excuses for him, and I don't know why he has yet to give you the access, but I can say that we are extremely busy right now

Well, Marc may have been put off by my hysteria, or he may have not received my messages ... or whatever. The idea that your company is busy is nice but you miss the notion that your customers may be busy too ... or ... may not feel comfortable spending literally hours chasing around a $10 product.
with another product that is scheduled to release soon. If I had to guess, I would have to say that would be the reason for the tardiness. But, I can tell you what I will do for you.

I will contact Marc and either direct him to this thread, or I'll have him check his inbox to see if he missed your e-mail.

Thatís OK ... the point from my point of view is that Iíve done more than enough already! Write to this guy, appeal to that guy, (or gal) do this, enter that ... all more appropriate for someone whoíd agreed to this process.

If you haven't done so already, please e-mail him again at l8brkr@pacbell.net with your forum username and purchase details requesting access to the F-Units/Geep forum. Again, I apologize for the inconveniences.

Thanks for writing! I was actually imagining that I could just make the purchase and pick up the product. I believe Iíve already followed all steps your company stipulated (after the fact) ...
Your products are excellent. The delivery and instructions are anything but. I certainly endorse the concept that you must protect yourselves but sadly, Iím sure you know that even with the steps youíve implemented protection from rip off yet eludes you.

Look at the Symantec approach. I really empathize with your issues, but as the client my job should be more just to enjoy your fine products.

Very respectfully
jivajiva


#5 cr-stagg

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 09:15 AM

Jiva,

Uli told you the solution to your problem above. You must "LOGIN" to the forum to access the restricted subforums.

I just logged out and checked the list of forums available. They exactly match the list in your first message.

SO you had NOT LOGGED IN.

Look in the graphic below. See the line in the middle "Welcome Guest (Log-in ) (Register)" ?

IPB Image

Login and you will see the FUNITS and GEEPS forum

#6 jivagoswami

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 10:00 AM

There is a problem for me with the logic in your observation: "You had not logged in." I have logged in, but I am probably not looking in the right place. I need help to find that which I paid for and to go through all these changes for Payware is what bothers me ... particularly since I was "blindsided" smile.gif by this process. I have not ignored suggestions that I'd not logged in.
Now we're posting pictures etc. It helps to listen carefully to each other. You (anyone) invite misunderstanding with assumptions such as: "You had not logged in" or: "You need to log in." Paying customers should not be obliged to go through all this! (Unless we agree to) I believe I am making some fundamental mistake and once I learn what I'm doing wrong I'll properly feel like an idiot ... However ... when a paying customer gets lost do we call Ghost Busters? Or do we communicate and solve? Eitherway ... like a leaf ... I'm
jivajivamoremore


#7 cr-stagg

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 10:36 AM

Look we are all just trying to help. You do not have to shout.

It appears your account is not registered properly. Marc is the one to fix it.

#8 jivagoswami

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 11:00 AM

Yes ... smile.gif And I am certain there is a fundamental mistake I'm making. smile.gif For whatever reason, Marc has not responded to entreaties submitted since last WEDNESDAY. smile.gif

Me? Not registered properly for something I do not want? smile.gif What else is new? smile.gif

Seriously ... any help is appreciated but hey ... you know how it is ... Understanding? We've got plenty. But from my perspective ... here's a customer (OK not a bright one!) smile.gif Who paid for his product last Wednesday.

What must I do for this $10 product which I think I purchased once before under the old almost equally convoluted and certainly befuddling system of downloading and using e-mailed passwords here.

Again ... if it is free or if a customer agrees to this kind of stuff ... fine. Otherwise ... well take my difficulties as valuable input, Dekosoft.

Why is it that the customer needs to have the patience understanding resourcefulness good eating habits be a non smoker and or whatever else? Isnít paying the agreed upon price sufficient anymore on Earth?

It was like this last time. I communicated a problem with Dekosoft, and the flavor response was like: "There is no problem." "You are bothering us." (This is NOT a quote ... it is a citation of the flavor)

Another one you hear a lot is: "No one else has said anything about this." (As if that makes your issue just some side incidental you have to learn to live with ... ignoring the fact that if one throws a flag ... others are experiencing!!)

Anyway ... hey ... it's a beautiful day and this machine has not crashed yet!!

Respectfully
jivajiva


#9 jivagoswami

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 11:08 AM

I do not mean to appear to shout. I am blind. Posting like this makes it easier for me.
I stated this earlier in this thread. It is important to hear what people may be trying to say. That's strike two on you! smile.gif
(Just teasing)
Shouting is all caps. Make no mistake ... I appreciate the (still anticipated) help!
Respectfully
jivajiva


#10 Bananarama

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:38 PM

Jiva - I've sent you several emails (4), including one where I created a user name for you with a simple password, but each email (with exception to the original sent when purchased) went unanswered. So me not responding is not true. The problem might be with AOL. rolleyes.gif

Nevertheless, I've set access for your current user name to access the F-Units area. Steps outlined in a previous email on how to access the private areas and your downloads:

1) Ensure your logged into the forum
2) Under the topic "Train Sim Community", go to the forum listing "F-Units & Geeps"
3) 5th thread from the top (marked as a "Sticky") find the thread titled "Locomotive & Core Downloads"
4) Scroll through the image list until you find the "Western Maryland SuperPack" and click on its image
5) When prompted to open or save, select to save the file to a folder on your hard drive that you can easily navigate to

Note: you'll need to ensure you've disabled any firewalls or ad-pop-up stoppers before selecting to download the files.

Cheers!
Marc

#11 jivagoswami

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 06:01 AM

Thanks, Sir! I havenít had a chance yet to check this out. I am sure success in this endeavor is just around the corner.
ďObviouslyĒ smile.gif to simply receive the purchased product is at the end of this particular journey.
Your mention of AOL might be the problem. You arenít on AOL, Iím not on AOL so I wonder whom you were sending messages to? smile.gif
OK ... back to work here. Iím certain Iíll adore your products as always. And of being ďforcedĒ to join a forum, why thsi one here is a very fine place and all is well that ends well.

Very respectfully

jviajiva


#12 Bananarama

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 06:47 AM

QUOTE(jivagoswami @ Jul 20 2003, 06:01 AM)
Your mention of AOL might be the problem. You arenít on AOL, Iím not on AOL so I wonder whom you were sending messages to? smile.gif

Easier to blame it on AOL than the "unknown." biggrin.gif

FWIW, I see two email addys for you in my "Sent" folder...One for comcast.net, and the other to attbi.com - the attbi appeared to work fine, but from comcast.net I never received a reply.

Cheers!
Marc

#13 jivagoswami

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 07:03 AM

Donít tell me stuff like that!! smile.gif (AOL = null?) Because now Iím thinking this is one of those accepted and known esoteric PC Age terms ... like ... I donít know ... um ... ďCrash.Ē

ďCrashĒ means something different and special to those in the PC realm ... AOL = Faboishtana? smile.gif

Yes, and thank you because I have downloaded the products sought after here. As I said, this is a very nice board here ... to compel users to join is not at all a bad thing ... Now that protocols are more familiar to me Iíll look around for more excellent stuff

Hack = Marc? Good morning!! smile.gif

Very respectfully

jivajiva


#14 ckawahara

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 06:58 PM

...ship him a cd..... rolleyes.gif

I'll pay the postage.....

#15 Subwayaz

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 01:47 PM

QUOTE(Zebo @ Jul 19 2003, 7:27 AM) View Post

Jiva,
Let me first start off and say that I apologize for any inconveniences you have experienced. Not being a part of the purchase procedure, I can't help you directly right now, but I do want to point out a few things. Our method of getting you your purchase only changed just recently. I don't know the specifics of the piracy that caused this change to occur, but we had to deviate from our prior method of including links to the setup files, and the passwords, in an e-mail that was sent to you after verification of your purchase was made. Because a direct link was posted on a website, along with the password for that product, we didn't have any control over who downloaded and received a free copy of our product. We did query the users that frequent this forum about taking these measures to protect our products and we had strong support in favor of the method we are using right now. To protect our products you now have to be given access to the forum for the product you purchased. Only then will you be able to see that said forum where you will find 'sticky' threads with the download links available. This gives us control and ensures that only verified customers of our product are allowed into their proper forums. Also, IPs are logged when downloads are made of our products so that if we suspect someone is pirating our product we can pinpoint who it was. So, for the time being, this is how we have chosen to handle this issue, and we understand if some of our customers do not agree with it. We just don't have alternatives at this point in time. Now, you said that you have sent repeat e-mails to Marc Nelson about your purchase. Normally, you should have been given access to the F-Unit/Geep forum within a very short amount of time. Marc is extremely good at giving you that access once you have e-mailed him back (after registering on our forums here) with your forum username and purchase details. I'm not making excuses for him, and I don't know why he has yet to give you the access, but I can say that we are extremely busy right now with another product that is scheduled to release soon. If I had to guess, I would have to say that would be the reason for the tardiness. But, I can tell you what I will do for you. I will contact Marc and either direct him to this thread, or I'll have him check his inbox to see if he missed your e-mail. If you haven't done so already, please e-mail him again at l8brkr@pacbell.net with your forum username and purchase details requesting access to the F-Units/Geep forum. Again, I apologize for the inconveniences.

Kindest regards,
Dan Zollner - 3DTrains


[b] WOW I tried to email the addy you mention in the post however the Mailbox is full. By the looks of this thread it's with unresolved complaints will since Money doesn't grow on trees, and if you don't deliver I don't want things to go on and have PAY PAL tell me I waited to long for a refund. I will continue to be patient until Monday NOON then I will be forced to report this to PAYPAL for REFUND, and BBB. PLEASE DON"T FORCE MY FINGERS. GIVE ME WHAT I PAID FOR[i][color=#CC0000]


#16 Big Zee

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 02:08 PM

QUOTE(Subwayaz @ Apr 22 2007, 4:28 PM) View Post

[b] WOW I tried to email the addy you mention in the post however the Mailbox is full. By the looks of this thread it's with unresolved complaints will since Money doesn't grow on trees, and if you don't deliver I don't want things to go on and have PAY PAL tell me I waited to long for a refund. I will continue to be patient until Monday NOON then I will be forced to report this to PAYPAL for REFUND, and BBB. PLEASE DON"T FORCE MY FINGERS. GIVE ME WHAT I PAID FOR[i][color=#CC0000]


Marc does not use that email address any longer. This thread originated 4 years ago, and if you read through the thread you can see it was no fault of ours and every attempt was made to rectify the situation. You can email Marc at support@3dtrains.com, or directly at mnelson@3dtrains.com. The support email address is listed on our support page. I've edited the address in my original post.

#17 Bananarama

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 04:33 PM

QUOTE(Subwayaz @ Apr 22 2007, 1:28 PM) View Post
WOW I tried to email the addy you mention in the post however the Mailbox is full. By the looks of this thread it's with unresolved complaints will since Money doesn't grow on trees, and if you don't deliver I don't want things to go on and have PAY PAL tell me I waited to long for a refund. I will continue to be patient until Monday NOON then I will be forced to report this to PAYPAL for REFUND, and BBB. PLEASE DON"T FORCE MY FINGERS. GIVE ME WHAT I PAID FOR

The message above is several years old, and has long since been resolved. As stated on the 3DTrains website, orders can take up to 24 hrs to fully process. Please be patient. Your purchase was late last evening, and I hadn't sent out the keycodes until early this morning.

Cheers!
Marc

#18 BNSFGP39e

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 01:33 PM

Where is my Scenery Pack?
I have pay 20$ and I would have it! dry.gif
Where is these "Locomotiv & Core Downloads Section???
Thanks
BNSFGP39e

#19 kevarc

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 02:03 PM

Cool your jets. As posted above, it can take 24 hours before you get a reply. Have you also PM'ed Marc with the information so he can set your group?

#20 BNSFGP39e

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 10:33 AM

kevarc, I have the files now, thanks!
But there is a new problem?!?
My computer canīt find the original TEH2 installation for backup files or so.
How is this to install? There is no readme with instructions.
It is not easy for MSTS beginner and a german guy to check this.
Please give some tips.
Thanks
BNSFGP39e