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trouble at Wooford; maybe?


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#1 TGM

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 11:59 PM

Hi all

I have installed the expansion update for TH-2 & I'm finding at woodford (as your heading up towards the water tanks) that my framerate is dropping down to between 1 & 2 fps, it also dosen't matter which camera view I'm using at the time. It's only in this area that I seem to have an issue as the rest of the route is fine. Normally I'm running at around 28 fps, I've tried moving sliders to the left but it has not made any difference; I've also only have minimal background programmes running. Oh! & I've saved & saved still with the same result.
I thought I'd share this with the forum to see if anyone else has struck this & if you have did you manage to fix it?
Anyway Marc, great add on & thanks for your work on this.

regards: Tom

#2 Bananarama

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:23 AM

Hi Tom,

As you approach the area, the structures at the loop begin to load. I would think the loading might slow things down for a few seconds, but is the issue constant? If so, when does the FPS begin to rise again?

Cheers!
Marc

#3 TGM

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 09:24 AM

Hi Marc

The issue actually gets to the point (after stuttering along for a bit) where the game crashes/locksup. I haven't made it around the bend at the top yet. Once the framerates down to 1 or 2 I also start to get missing shape file errors as well. These tend to be some vehicle & SR track shapes. I thought I would try coming into woodford by starting at Marcel but as the game was loading I got a load of missing shape files & the game locked up .

regards: Tom

#4 Bananarama

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 10:45 AM

When you installed the addon, did you allow the batch file to complete its routine? I know of at least one person who thought the batch file wasn't doing what it should, and closed it thinking it had stalled. Most of the batch file commands work silently, and may give the appearance of not working.

If that's not relevant to your issue, then perhaps the textures are overloading your system (doubtful it's the models). I'm currently finishing up a low-res version of the expansion, which you'll be able to download either tonight or tomorrow. The main items addressed are the terrain textures (281 + snow), and the track textures, all of which have been reduced by 50%. Perhaps this will give you better performance.

Cheers!
Marc

#5 TGM

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 06:28 PM

Hi Marc

Yes I did allow the batch file to do it's thing. I thought it might be the extra trees so I went back to the orginals but still that made no difference.
Graphics for me really aren't a problem as I'm running P4 2.6 (800 mhz fsb) with an 128 MB ATI based card running the latest Omega drivers. I also have a gig of corsair ram & a couple of SATA seagate drives.
As I mentioned earlier Marc except for these couple of issues/spots the route runs fine with good frame rates & with the sliders nearly maxed.
I'm now going to come into woodford from the mojave side & see if the problem happens from this direction.

regards: Tom

#6 TGM

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:58 PM

Hi again Marc

I did some more testing & found that if I move the World objects density slider to 8 & the Terrain error threshold slider to 20 this solves most of the problems, it still gives the odd stutter down to below 5 fps (where the MOW siding meets the main at woodford; something around that area is causing a frame rate drop? same at the passing loop at Marcel coming from Mojave ) but I can now get through ok. All of the other sliders are set to max as after testing it didn't appear to make any difference.
So we'll plod on for now.
Thank's for taking the time to help.

regards: Tom

#7 Bananarama

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 09:14 PM

QUOTE(TGM @ Jul 14 2006, 07:58 PM)
something around that area is causing a frame rate drop?

The only thing that comes to mind is that I set the error bias for much of the line in that area to "0", mostly to allow for the new tunnels and the rest of the ROW.

Cheers!
Marc

#8 TGM

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 11:15 PM

Hi Marc

No worries. I'm sure it will get sorted it out in the end. smile.gif

regards: Tom

#9 akajim

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 07:10 AM

QUOTE(TGM @ Jul 15 2006, 01:15 AM)
Hi Marc

No worries. I'm sure it will get sorted it out in the end. smile.gif

regards: Tom

Hey Marc ;
I just got the scenery update last weekend, and have been checking out the route in explore mode using 2 different trainsets. The 1st is an intermodal with 7 SLI ATSF units pulling 65 (Ted Curphey) UPS intermodals leaving Bakersfield @ 6:00 AM (summer clear environment). The 2nd is a rendition of the "SP Oilcans" with 6 MLT units up front and 5 MLT units midtrain, using the latest CMP tanktrain file from the "TS" file library for the GATX tank cars (72 total in 12 sets of 6 per the prototype). This train is also leaving Bakersfield using the same environment, but at 4:00 PM.
Depending on the camera view used, my system has been showing FPS from 18 min to 54 max averaging 20-30 most of the time ; and this pertains to both trainsets. But when I get to the area that Tom refers to, I start getting a bunch of shape file errors. What is strange about it is that with the intermodal train, all the errors are referring to SR_TPII-1132.s thru 11?? (scalerail) before getting the send/don't send. With the tanktrain, the errors in the same location are referring to shape files for a given number of vehicles before bombing out.
So is there trouble at Woodford?
Ron K of Rockford
P.S. Will post some screens soon as I get my act together here.

#10 akajim

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 05:25 PM

Okay;
Did like Tom and dropped World objects density back a bit, and was able to get by the trouble spot with no further problems; but with the stuttering and reduced fps as Tom stated. Other than that everything looks great and really adds to the experience !!

Ron K of Rockford

#11 TGM

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 06:15 PM

Hi Ron/Marc

Good to see it's not just me. Funny thing is, I reinstalled the expansion upgrade, files 1 through 7, 1 to 3 first then 7 & finally 4, 5 & 6 & since then I'm having a lot less trouble. I also put all the sliders back to max. I still get a fps drop but nowhere as bad as it was. So she's a mystery alright.
Anyway all the best

regards: Tom

#12 GaryG

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 10:13 PM

Hi

The solution I've found that works best for me is drop the 'World object quality' to 2 from 3 and if that doesn't solve the "Can't load..." errors, I also drop the 'Train object quality' to 2 as well.

I don't have a route where just these two changes won't solve the shape loading problem for me.

I run with all other settings at maximum and all MSTS graphics options enabled.

The problem with the default TP2 equipment is dropping the TOQ to 2 changes a lot of the cars to MagLev with the cars floating above the rails without wheels. Also quite a few couplers disappear.

The options as I see them are WOQ=3 & TOQ=3 & live with the "Can't load" errors for photos, WOQ=2 & perhaps TOQ=2 for runs without failures. We are supposed to stay in the cab anyways and just lean out the window to see our train.

GaryG

#13 kevarc

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 12:00 AM

This is a problem with using the SLI stuff. It is absolute murder on a system. I was having problems and I changed consists, getting rid of some of the SLI/MLT engines and things just perked up.

#14 Bananarama

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 04:42 AM

QUOTE(akajim @ Jul 23 2006, 07:10 AM)
So is there trouble at Woodford?

Shape failure is usually a problem with too many textures being loaded at once. Considering you're using lots of MLT/SLI locos, plus the cars Ted created, my guess is that the areas mentioned are the straws to break the camel's back. Knocking the sliders back a notch should allow you to continue through the areas unscathed.

Cheers!
Marc

#15 Genma Saotome

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 07:54 AM

QUOTE
Shape failure is usually a problem with too many textures being loaded at once.


Marc, when you say "too many" to you mean too many files or too many pixels (i.e., from large skins)?

#16 Bananarama

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 02:11 PM

QUOTE(Genma Saotome @ Jul 24 2006, 07:54 AM)
Marc, when you say "too many" to you mean too many files or too many pixels (i.e., from large skins)?

I mean overall Mb, whether RGB or DXT1. There are quite a number of textures in RGB-alpha (trees), and I'll experiment with creating DXT1 versions and see if that helps FPS. The only issue I have with DXT1-alpha textures is the black fringe that develops when the texture is mipped. However, it may be a small price to pay in visuals in order to load tons of trees, and may actually allow me to add more to the scene with less overhead than now. Smaller 256 x 256 track textures might also help.

Cheers!
Marc

#17 smmille1

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 02:25 PM

QUOTE(Hack @ Jul 24 2006, 03:11 PM)
QUOTE(Genma Saotome @ Jul 24 2006, 07:54 AM)
Marc, when you say "too many" to you mean too many files or too many pixels (i.e., from large skins)?

I mean overall Mb, whether RGB or DXT1. There are quite a number of textures in RGB-alpha (trees), and I'll experiment with creating DXT1 versions and see if that helps FPS. The only issue I have with DXT1-alpha textures is the black fringe that develops when the texture is mipped. However, it may be a small price to pay in visuals in order to load tons of trees, and may actually allow me to add more to the scene with less overhead than now. Smaller 256 x 256 track textures might also help.

Cheers!
Marc

I just realized that there is one thing I haven't tried that just might fix the black fringe issue - Marc, I know you sent me some test textures for this way back when, but it just might be easier if you could send me some more so I don't have to try to find those or something else that would work for testing.

#18 akajim

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 07:02 PM

1st off, a question for Tom. 7 files? I only downloaded 6 !
Hi Ron/Marc

Good to see it's not just me. Funny thing is, I reinstalled the expansion upgrade, files 1 through 7, 1 to 3 first then 7 & finally 4, 5 & 6 & since then I'm having a lot less trouble. I also put all the sliders back to max. I still get a fps drop but nowhere as bad as it was. So she's a mystery alright.
Anyway all the best

regards: Tom

Secondly, I did stumble my way through Woodford. No problems up to this point, and so far I havn't encountered anymore. See grabs that I just posted under General Discussion/Tehachapi Screens.

cool.gif Ron K of Rockford


#19 TGM

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 07:34 PM

Hi Ron

Yeah, Marc uploaded an upgrade it's now ver 1.11 & has 7 separate files which allows you to install only the bits you want. What I then did was go back to the basic route ( backup ) & I then installed the required core files 1 through 3. I then checked the route & all was ok; so I then installed file 7 rechecked & that was also ok (I mean around Woodford) so I then installed the files 4,5 & 6 & ran the whole route (sliders were down a bit). The route again ran ok so I upped the sliders to the max & I've had no problems since.

regards Tom

#20 akajim

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 07:47 PM

Thanks Tom,
did not know about the upgrade til now.

cool.gif Ron K of Rockford